PAGE-9: A World Without A Religion? related to religion, jesu, start, faith

BooZker

Jul 14 2006, 01:34 AM

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No, the world would not be a better place without religion. it would only be worse. In my opinion Religion keeps less crimes. because if there was no religion, than people would not know anything about the human life or would have no feelings about killing another. and why is now religion being mixed with religion? they are not one related. a terrorist could be somebody your own relgion killing you, i think you are kind of discriminating when you use terrorists and religion.terrorists are not religious people, not matter what they say. those are jsut some iditos who think that, and we have many of those in this world. and i think that no days, when somebody speaks of terrorists is kind of talking about the alquida, but there could be other groups as well, you never know! I think that religion is here to test us to see if we can live in peace with each other, all the different races, religions and everything else that makes us differents, cultures as well. So far, i really haven't seen it working, so much racism and many religion problems.. We all have a heart, breain and feelings, you just gotta know how to use them. Without religion there woul dbe less laws and sure as heck more crimes, trust me, there are many people who respect their religion and try to follow it and stay away from problems, but there are those who just want to scew things up. my answer is There would be no world without religion!!!

QUOTE

Religion can be simply another word for the beliefs by which we live our lives. In that case, it's inescapable so long as we maintain our humanity. If by religion you mean the organized pursuit of God, we can see what happens in societies that try to eliminate it. Communist countries like China, Cuba, and Soviet Russia have tried eliminating religion completely and torturing and imprisoning all who practice it. Tell me, are those countries any better than those without? Hitler made a society where the only religion was his Aryan-perfectionist ideas, and he killed many Jews and Christians who hid Jews. Was his society any better? By examining societies that have sought to destroy religion, we can thus evaluate the merit of a lack of religion.

Maybe you didn't read my first post or second or any... I said if God just never existed. The idea never happened. I believe in freedom so i would never try to convert someone and i would never take away their choice of religion. I mean i would fight back if someone like Hitler told me i had to believe in a God.

QUOTE

Well before I start I want to say that my mom is very spiritual not in the sense of like believing in God and going to church everyday but she is more like the yoga type. She is into the Buddhist sayings. One thing she said to me is that people need to believe in something and they need guidance. She said that many people don’t look up to another human for guidance after the age of 30 and most people wont anyway. But believing in a figure like God makes you stay in peace with yourself and calm. Many people will be lost if religion didn't exist like if something went wrong they wouldn't have anything to look forward to and if one is pushed to extreme poverty they might lead into crime but the thought that God is looking at me and I can’t disrespect God keeps many people focused. Also there is a famous Bible story that proves that people always need guidance if you don't believe in the Bible it is ok just read this anyway you don't need to be religious. When the Jewish people were in the desert and they told Moses to go and talk to God that their living conditions weren't good so when Moses went to talk to God it took a little long and the people thought that he left them so they built a golden cow and prayed to it for guidance and help. This is just an abbreviation of a story that shows that people desperately need guidance all the time even after a short time they feel lost. So in my opinion religion is very important and people who don’t believe in god believe in a good life or something like a goal that keeps them on track but not everyone can do that.

Maybe, but maybe not. When i'm sad or mad or whatever i turn to a friend or a girlfriend. I don't need a golden cow, Jesus, or something like that. If i need guidance i turn to another living human i can talk to and receive answers back. Some people say they talk to them and dreams and so fourth, but there is no proof. If you have a vivid dream and you were christian and the dream was of Jesus saying,"Kill your child and come to heaven" would you? Some people say yes. Now if you were talking to a human leader not a spirtual one like the President and he said the same thing almost everyone would try to get him arrested.

muskrat

Jul 14 2006, 03:49 AM

For a religionless world to be possible, you have to kill off all of humanity. Religion is as old as mankind. Religion is in the human heart.

Cerebral Stasis

Jul 14 2006, 08:49 AM

Granted, humanity needs rules to follow and something to believe in, but religion just creates zealots that murder because they believe everyone else is wrong, and that's where religion turns bad.

trace-uk

Jul 14 2006, 09:46 AM

the trouble with religion is its run by people. the actual religious text are peaceful and promote clear thinking and good behaviour. howver, every religion has a leader and followers. the leaders are often mixed up in political views and use their followers as a base of power. wither it be taking physicalaction in groups or just canvassing for votes.

remember, the only think more powerful than a king is a priest. Throughout history the only real force that has toppled kings and queens was the power of the church.

Dragonfly

Jul 14 2006, 03:57 PM

A world without religion cannot become better. No matter how much destructive they are they are still good. The small disadvantage that we see in religion is not enough to remove itself because it is much more contributing to the wellness of the whole mankine. But it will depend alot on what kind of religion we are talking about.

For example, think about Osama not having religion, he will even attack everyone including his so-called Muslim fellows... just kidding...

pixieloo

Jul 14 2006, 03:58 PM

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What do you consider saved? When they believe what you believe? And what is evil? I'f im right its against Christian rules to cheat on your wife or get divorced? So when they do that are they considered evil? No never mind they just have to go to confession. Even if they murdered 100 poeple as long as they forgive them selves they can go to heaven. This makes no sence to me because if someone murdered my child i would never expect to see them in heaven.

Saved is when you believe what the Bible says.

If someone really believes that Jesus died for him, so that he can go to heaven, then he would want to do good, instead of bad. But even if he did do something really bad, he's saved by faith, not by good works.

"Confession" is for Catholics. Besides, confessing your sins usually means that you'll try not to do it again. If you murder someone, confess your sins, murder, confess, murder.. that's repeating the same sin over and over again. Are you really repenting, or are you pretending? If you're pretending, then you're not truely forgiven.

Some Christians are hypocrites. Some act goodygoody on the outside, but on the inside, it's a different story. It's up to God to see whether or not they go to heaven, and if they really trust Him in their hearts.

If someone were to murder your child.. I wouldn't know if I would see him in heaven. I don't know what's in his heart. I don't know if he knew Jesus. I don't know if he came to know Jesus after the murder. Only God knows.

Christianity isn't about the good things we do. Our bad always outweighs our good. Which is why God sent Jesus, a perfect man, to pay for the penalty of our sin. Jesus was crucified, and came back to life three days later. Whoever believes that Jesus died for them can go to heaven.

I think my post kinda went off-topic.. I hope I answered your question though.

Joshua

Jul 14 2006, 06:09 PM

QUOTE(BooZker @ Jul 13 2006, 08:34 PM)

There is no proof there would be less crimes. How do you base this even? I'm not religious and although i have broken some laws such as speeding i really don't think if i thought God was real i owuld do that less. My little brothers have grown up knowing hitting another person is bad because they get in trouble. If they were religious i think they would do the exact same. One is 2 years old and she obviously knows if she hits her brothers its bad and she has grown up without a religion.
Maybe you didn't read my first post or second or any... I said if God just never existed. The idea never happened. I believe in freedom so i would never try to convert someone and i would never take away their choice of religion. I mean i would fight back if someone like Hitler told me i had to believe in a God.
Maybe, but maybe not. When i'm sad or mad or whatever i turn to a friend or a girlfriend. I don't need a golden cow, Jesus, or something like that. If i need guidance i turn to another living human i can talk to and receive answers back. Some people say they talk to them and dreams and so fourth, but there is no proof. If you have a vivid dream and you were christian and the dream was of Jesus saying,"Kill your child and come to heaven" would you? Some people say yes. Now if you were talking to a human leader not a spirtual one like the President and he said the same thing almost everyone would try to get him arrested.

But that's the thing, if that's what you consider religion, then Christianity is not religion. Yes, just thinking God will punish you or something is wrong won't change your behavior much. Simple religion isn't enough, what's required is a very change of nature. In James 2:19 it says even the devils believe there's one God, and they tremble. So in the sense of simply believing in God, even the devils have religion. Does it make them any better? As it goes on to say in 2:20, that kind of faith is dead without works. And since as Galatians 2:16 says, by the law of works will no flesh be justified in His sight, that kind of faith is dead indeed. We can never "earn" our way to heaven through doing good works. As Ephesians 2:8-10 says, salvation is the GIFT of God by GRACE (unmerited mercy, we don't deserve it) through FAITH, NOT of works.

The saving faith Paul speaks of in Romans 10:8-10 is more then just believing there's one God. It's a heart transaction based on trusting Jesus, repentance, and turning our lives over to Him. As Jesus says in Luke 13:1-5, "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." We have to realize, truly realize how evil and hopelessly short of God's standards we are. The reason I started seeking God was because my life was a mess, I got in fights and even hurt my brothers, despised the way I said hurtful words to others, lied, and did things of which I was ashamed. I knew I was evil and needed to change. We all have to reach that point of recognizing our need for God's MERCY before we can truly come to Him and have a relationship with Him.

We have to trust solely in what Jesus did on the cross to save us. If you read the Gospels with "ears to hear" you'll come to realize Jesus is more then a story or words on a page. He's not the peaceful guy everyone talks about, though He chose to live peacefully. He came out of love for us, not the romantic-type love everyone thinks about. Love is simply seeing someone for who they really are, so that we care about them unconditionally regardless of what they do to us or what they act like. It passes mere concern about them, for it's caring about them BECAUSE OF WHO THEY REALLY ARE INSIDE. This is the kind of love Jesus cared about us with, that made Him die a death so horrible even He feared it.

And it's the kind of love as Christians we are all called to care about others with. See, 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 says even if we give all our goods to the poor, give our body to be burned for the sake of Christ, have all knowledge and wisdom, all faith to work miracles, and speak in tongues of men and angels, but don't have love, we are nothing and have no eternal reward. We're called to do good works of love for others, not because it's the "right thing to do" or because we "think we should" but because we care about people and God and want to take care of them, do what's best for them. As Romans 13:8-10 says, love fulfils all God's commandments, because it does no harm to others. All the commandments are briefly comprehended in the saying "love your neighbor as yourself." If we cared about others as ourselves, we wouldn't lie, steal, be jealous of what they have, commit adultery with their loved ones, murder, rape, etc...

It's furthermore why Jesus says in John 13:35 that "by this will all men know you are my disciples, if you have love one to another." It's not calling ourselves a Christian that shows we're one... it's OUR LOVE FOR OTHERS. When we forgive others, do good in exchange for evil, and love even our enemies, then it is clear it's not by some religion we do such things, but by the power and grace of God in making us new people. We will not ever be perfect in this life, but we can come closer to it by being merciful and loving to others like God has been to us for the sake of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

Jesus says in Matthew 7:21-22 that many will come claiming to be His disciples but that not those who say "Lord, Lord" to Him will enter Heaven but those that do the will of His Father in Heaven. And as He says in John 6:38-40, that will is that whoever trusts solely in Jesus might have eternal life and be raised up at the last day. Many will come to Him claiming to be His only to be told "I knew you, depart from me you that work iniquity."

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Trusting in Jesus means several things. It means we admit we need a Saviour. We are doing wrong things, evil things, and need to change. It means we admit we can't save ourselves, trusting solely in Jesus' sacrifice to save us. And it means we trust in Him to change us so we turn our lives solely over to Him, to live our lives according to His will rather then our own from now on. "Believing on Him" thus involves repentance, trust solely in Him to save us, and the turning over of our hearts and lives to Him.

Perhaps it's a lack of persecution allowing false Christians to get in so easily but here in America there are many false Christians and even true Christian churches doubtless have many fakers, or else deceived. But you can go to places like http://persecution.com to read of how Christians worldwide die peacefully even at this moment, loving and forgiving their enemies like Jesus and the apostles did, for the sake of Christ. In India and China radical Hindus and Buddhists as well as their governments throw Christians in prison, torturing them or imprisoning them for years. It's common for pastors to end up dead by mysterious means, yet the church is growing by leaps and bounds.

In Iran and Afghanistan the Christian church is being heavily persecuted as Muslim extremists make being a Christian effectually a death sentence. Yet still the church grows. In Russia and eastern European countries Christianity has long been sought to be stomped out by Communism and its adherents. There's a site, http://backtojerusalem.com , about the Chinese church. It's grown so greatly the single church has a million + members and is sending a tithe out across what they call the 10/40 window (latitude coordinates I believe). The way they see it, Christianity starting in the middle east, spread to Europe, America, the far East, and is now coming back around the world.

They are sending a "tithe" of their millions of church members, hundreds of thousands of missionaries to sweep across all the countries between Africa and Japan. Some of those persecuted in Middle Eastern countries are straight from this Chinese church. They are spreading the Good News, aka the Gospel, in spite of massive persecution. As the line goes, "Only one life will soon be past, only what's done for Christ will last." Many extremists today are willing to die for what they believe in. But how many die peacefully while loving their enemies? There are thousands if not millions of Christians suffering in just such a way all around the world, and the accusers of Christianity willing ignore such a fact in their attacks.

BooZker

Jul 14 2006, 08:56 PM

QUOTE

I dont think i understand. How much better of a person can i be? I'm not saying im perfect, but you arn't either. I dont drink, smoke, hurt people, i never fight, i go to college, so could i become a better person? Argue less or something i guess.

QUOTE

The saving faith Paul speaks of in Romans 10:8-10 is more then just believing there's one God. It's a heart transaction based on trusting Jesus, repentance, and turning our lives over to Him. As Jesus says in Luke 13:1-5, "unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." We have to realize, truly realize how evil and hopelessly short of God's standards we are. The reason I started seeking God was because my life was a mess, I got in fights and even hurt my brothers, despised the way I said hurtful words to others, lied, and did things of which I was ashamed. I knew I was evil and needed to change. We all have to reach that point of recognizing our need for God's MERCY before we can truly come to Him and have a relationship with Him.

Well i'm sorry i don't believe in things i can't see or somehow see the proof. People say graivty you can't see, but you can do many different things to see the effects of gravity. There is nothing i can do or say that would give proof there is a God or Jesus. For me anyway, i can't just read a book and go,"Wow, you know what since this is what is says ill follow it." Faith is not enough for me to change my lifestyle.

QUOTE

We have to trust solely in what Jesus did on the cross to save us. If you read the Gospels with "ears to hear" you'll come to realize Jesus is more then a story or words on a page. He's not the peaceful guy everyone talks about, though He chose to live peacefully. He came out of love for us, not the romantic-type love everyone thinks about. Love is simply seeing someone for who they really are, so that we care about them unconditionally regardless of what they do to us or what they act like. It passes mere concern about them, for it's caring about them BECAUSE OF WHO THEY REALLY ARE INSIDE. This is the kind of love Jesus cared about us with, that made Him die a death so horrible even He feared it.

Haha you make me laugh here because it is so false. I DO think Jesus was a loving man and he wanted to help people, but the people following him, i don't know it makes no sence what so ever. He says he loves everyone right? Well not if your gay, don't believe in him, believe in another god. He also said not to kill right? Well look at the American leader now. He says God speaks to him and he is at war right now? I don't really don't know. I could never believe in someone like this. Maybe Jesus wasn't like this and maybe he was. It's all these maybes that make me not want a religion. I want a religion where the answers are there not in some passage that your supposed to guess what they mean.

QUOTE

And it's the kind of love as Christians we are all called to care about others with. See, 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 says even if we give all our goods to the poor, give our body to be burned for the sake of Christ, have all knowledge and wisdom, all faith to work miracles, and speak in tongues of men and angels, but don't have love, we are nothing and have no eternal reward. We're called to do good works of love for others, not because it's the "right thing to do" or because we "think we should" but because we care about people and God and want to take care of them, do what's best for them. As Romans 13:8-10 says, love fulfils all God's commandments, because it does no harm to others. All the commandments are briefly comprehended in the saying "love your neighbor as yourself." If we cared about others as ourselves, we wouldn't lie, steal, be jealous of what they have, commit adultery with their loved ones, murder, rape, etc...

Just like what i said above. So you think war is justified? No because of that. You think gay people are NOT sinners right? Well i don't know, but if i had to guess you don't want gay marriage and have done nothing to try to stop war.

QUOTE

Whoever believes that Jesus died for them can go to heaven.

Sounds like a great guy. Here is how a conversation would go if this is true.

Jesus: Welcome to Heaven. I see you have never done anything bad your entire life. You have always been a great man and forgiven everyone who has wronged you. Wait

Guy: What?

Jesus: Well here it says you don't believe in me.

Guy: Ya, but i have been a great person and i just grew up as a Jew.

Jesus: I'm sorry. You'll have to go to Hell. Good Bye!

does that sound like someone who is loving of everyone?

delivi

Jul 14 2006, 09:54 PM

Without any religion man wont be humane he'll be just like the animals. Even with lots of religions and laws, the present day man behaviour is going out of control. I cannot imagine a world without religion.

Another point is mostly everything is based on religion for example the Laws brought in by the Kings and Governments, the historical events,etc.

truefusion

Jul 14 2006, 10:05 PM

Salvation is by Grace, but Judgement is on Works.

Main reason why people say "not by works, but by faith," is because faith is found in works. If you do not believe that the work will do anything good for a person, then you won't do it. But if you do believe it'll be beneficial for the person, and refrain from providing such a deed, what good is your faith then? You get where i am going with this? It shouldn't be hard: Faith is complete with works.