my vote made it even... 50/50 (15 votes each)... anyways.

first of all I don't believe in anything. I can't bring myself to believe that all these religions exist, all claiming to be true.

you could on one side say yes, the world would be better, no more fighting over holy land, or killing because someone disagrees with your religion. We could concentrate on what we need to do to survive, and worry about our life now, not what it might be in an afterlife we can't be positive exists.

However, I voted no, it would not be better. It would be, eventually, perhaps... but the majority of people need something to believe in. They need to know what they are doing is not in vein, or at least, they need to think that. Some people need religion to explain what they can't... how was the earth created? I don't know, let's say some all powerful being did so i don't have to think about it. it gives some people comfort, and others don't need it... others can accept that there are some things they can't understand, maybe they will eventually, maybe they won't, but they won't let it bother them.

But religion will always exist, people will always wonder, people will always make theories of how life was created and how it will end (basically, religion). You can't stop people from being curious. You can't stop religion.

What would be interesting would be alien contact... it would throw so many super-religion people out of whack and they would be confused, but I, I would be prepared

 

 

 

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I don't want to make anyone mad, but i am just supporting someones quote.



You replied to the person above who said that religion makes people think in an illogical way. How is it logitcal to believe in any God? Think about that for just a second. I'm not saying it is "bad" at all, but just ask that to yourself. It is a sort of ghost in the sky. There is a King, you could say, of the world. You can never see him during your living life, but after your dead you can, in a place in the sky, if you will. If your bad you go down in the Earth and down there is a evil king who tortures people for being bad during there life on Earth.

I am just making a point. To me that sounds like it could be a child's book. Think about if you have never heard of religion before and you read the Bible. That would be odd, wouldnt it? How would you explain that this story is real to an adult? You wouldn't be able to. So my point is religion really isnt logical. It is based on beliefe not logic. Which most people would agree on. Is it not true religion is based on belief?




Well he wanted to take over the world. He also, from day one, wanted to make the human race different. He wanted to make them all super humans you could say. To him blacks, jews, mexicans, ect were not the perfect match. If i'm not mistaken it was blonde hair and blue eyes and were followers of him and his religion were the perfect match for him. So now how is this not a war about religion or race? If you said you didn't want to be a Jew anymore and wore a special badge they would not do anything to you (or so they said) because you were no longer a "weak" human. Now you are part of a super race. Not a war about religion or race. I beg to differ. Your are right about everything, but you missed the small point about why the war was started. He wanted to take over the world AND wanted to make a super human race.





I do know about wikipedia. And that is why i have found you some scientific books. Here is a link to the best one which is also the first book that coes up in the search below:

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id...hl%3Den%26lr%3D

Also if you have the time you could look at all the results in Google Scholar which are found at:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=homose...&oe=UTF-8&hl=en

If you don't like those results because some are tested in labs you can go to this search i did for you which is 'homosexual animals in the wild':
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr...als+in+the+wild

 

 

 

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1. There is differnce between "believing in God is logicall" and saying " that religion makes people think in an illogical way" . Read both of them more and see the difference. Of course believing in God is a belief. But that not mean a believer take non logical decisions. The oipposite can happen.

2. We don't discuss here how bad was Hitler, his acts and his plan, We debate whatever the wars were becauso of relegion and I said as examples among many examples that WW1 WW2 haven't started because of relegion. You recognise that in saying:

QUOTE

"..you missed the small point about why the war was started. He wanted to take over the world AND wanted to make a super human race."

3. Last time you give us wikipedia and when I said give us a specific page and reminded you that this wikipedia can be edited by any one, now you said:

QUOTE

" I do know about wikipedia. And that is why i have found you some scientific books."

Then why you give us unreliable reference in the first place?. Now you give us links which are the promotional advertising to the books.

It was better and productive that you give us a selective example and refer to this book and in which page. This is not only for me but to all members. I and they will not go buy this books for something we are not in urgent need even though if it is exist or available now. We have not the time to read a whole book for discussing a claim.

4. Give us an example in 5-20 lines saying : "This author in the book " Title of the book" told us that he has observed that animal "X": is living in homosexual relation with same sex. Show us why he think that there are homosexual relation . What the author definition of the homosexuality? Was it dance, song, living in group or real *person* relation. Does this animal live with his same-sex partner and refuses a sexual relationship with the opposite sex.[that what we are debating now. It is guy marriage and not casual sex with the same sex in some circumstances. I don't deny existence of the homosexuality but i say it is not normal and it happen in prisons and camp , sometimes as punishment by the stronger or abusing in investigation. Even some use finger to express the insult against other. It is funny I saw in films some women's used this gesture when they are angry.

5. Everyone can publish any book and about any subjects. How many books were published Agassi's Christ. How many books has published on "existence of Shakespeare" . How many books have published on John Kennedy Murder? That it why the new scientific observation, hypothesis or theory has to be review in Scientific Journal or Conference.

6. You describe this book as a scientific book, has the book's key points were published in scientific Journal or had discussed in scientific conference. If not then the claim that it is science is False.- The peer review in disputed matter or discovery is crucial. Scientific methods are impersonal. Any other scientist should be able to duplicate other scientist's work. When a person claims to observe something by some which others cannot observe or duplicate, that person is not doing science

7. Also falsification is essential to claim that something scientific. For a proposition to be falsifiable, it must be at least in principle possible to make an observation that would show the proposition to be false, even if that observation had not been made. For example, the proposition "All swans are white" would be falsified by observing one non-white swan.
The following is quoted from : " http://www.synapses.co.uk/evolve/lec1b.html

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The "falsifiability" seem a strange requirement but it is very important.
For example, I might make up the silly hypothesis that the Earth's core is made of chocolate. You would have a difficult time proving me wrong because you cannot visit the Earth's center in order to get a sample. For hundreds of years I could claim (unscientifically) that the Earth's core was chocolate and no one could prove me wrong.

8. The minimum requirements for scientific material was given in the ruling of the U.S. Supreme Court, 1981. Judge Overton found that science has four essential features:

QUOTE

-It is guided by natural laws, and is explanatory by references to natural laws.
- Science is testable against the empirical world.
- Its conclusions are tentative, not the final word.
- It is falsifiable

9. I will give you a recent example of false publication . In January this year and in this Forum a post by Cerebral Stasis in http://www.trap17.com/forums/what-human-tail-t32226.html . claimed that there are 12 million people having tail according to Dr X who was published in http://www.wildness.com/features/science/47083 .
then I replied saying:

QUOTE

1. This is Joke was published on Feb 2002 i.e four years ago.

2. Even Darwinisms have been never mentioned it and they still looking for the missing Link !!!!!!

3. The article didn't say how they counted the 12 millions. Is this number at the moment or accumulation of the 7000 years of civilization.

4. Then why Dr x is " so embarrassed by the two-foot tail that juts out from his own behind.". Who could easily did operation to get rid of them as the operation of circumstance or separation of twins or extra defected part .

5. The article mentioned that: "No one wants to come out and admit that tails are as common as they are," says Dr. X." Then from where he find the 12 millions"

6. Being with tail or not, what this deal with Christianity?

7. How we verify his findings if he hide himself under Dr"X".
......

During the postings in that thread, the initiator, Cerebral Stasis said:

QUOTE

You may be correct concerning that Weekly World News article (their articles have been known to be less-than-accurate), but these "tails", whether they are as common (12 million in the world) as WWN claims or not, they DO exist. The images posted earlier very well could be faked. However, the articles posted at the bottom of my original post are quite credible, and they all agree that this is a real phenomenon. Although it may not be as pronounced as suggested by the (possibly false) articles posted earlier, humans have been born with tails in the past, although it is pretty rare.

I appologize for misleading people due to my being fooled by the article/images. It is certainly a very elaborate hoax.

*edit inserted here*
By the way, according to this article, there have been only 23 true "tails" reported since 1884. It certainly does sound like a more reasonable number than 12 million...

.
Then I said:

QUOTE

Thanks for correction
That is reasonable now. 23 cases since 1884 and can be considered as other defective [2 heart, 3 eyes, 6 fingers, etc ].

The beginning of my doubts was questioning using math for wrong purposes[than 12 millions without specific times]. I am mathematician.

Then came the logical question that was why the Darwinists didn't mention any of these 12 millions as evidence for their claims. I am aware of all their others claims. I am as scientist is seeking truth and real proof before hypothesis to be considered a fact.

Then "Cerebral Stasis " posted saying: "

QUOTE

Thanks for setting me straight, Kasm.

Don't let the fact that these tails are very rare discourage people from commenting on this odd occurance."

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No, the world would not be a better place without religion. it would only be worse. In my opinion Religion keeps less crimes. because if there was no religion, than people would not know anything about the human life or would have no feelings about killing another. and why is now religion being mixed with religion? they are not one related. a terrorist could be somebody your own relgion killing you, i think you are kind of discriminating when you use terrorists and religion.terrorists are not religious people, not matter what they say. those are jsut some iditos who think that, and we have many of those in this world. and i think that no days, when somebody speaks of terrorists is kind of talking about the alquida, but there could be other groups as well, you never know! I think that religion is here to test us to see if we can live in peace with each other, all the different races, religions and everything else that makes us differents, cultures as well. So far, i really haven't seen it working, so much racism and many religion problems.. We all have a heart, breain and feelings, you just gotta know how to use them. Without religion there woul dbe less laws and sure as heck more crimes, trust me, there are many people who respect their religion and try to follow it and stay away from problems, but there are those who just want to scew things up. my answer is There would be no world without religion!!!

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I think a big problem is that people don't understand other religions, and that's why there are so many problems. There are some people who say they're a certain religion, but they don't follow it, and they think they're doing the right thing, but they're not. For example, I know many Christians that say they're Christian, but they don't act like it. And then, people get the wrong idea that all Christians are like that. And that cuases problems. I think, sometimes, the people following their religion don't understand their own religion, so that causes confusion. I think people should just try to understand and respect their own and other religions.

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Ok, so firstly, I'm a Buddhist myself, and I want to say that I think it would be better without religion. At the end of the day it's one more thing for people to argue about, although I will say that for christains etc... I can imagine it being nice to have belief in an after life, but I think that it would be better for everyone if it never exsisted.. like said previously, it's nothing against anyone's religion, I just think if it never exsisted in the first place it'd be better..

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Y'all think too much!

I think this image explains this concept fully:


You can have feelings for another human being and people can be sane without thinking
"God will spite me if I do this....."

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I think world wouldnt be better without religion. Religion has laws that changes very strong people. I think world would be to perverse without religion.

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Religion can be simply another word for the beliefs by which we live our lives. In that case, it's inescapable so long as we maintain our humanity. If by religion you mean the organized pursuit of God, we can see what happens in societies that try to eliminate it. Communist countries like China, Cuba, and Soviet Russia have tried eliminating religion completely and torturing and imprisoning all who practice it. Tell me, are those countries any better than those without? Hitler made a society where the only religion was his Aryan-perfectionist ideas, and he killed many Jews and Christians who hid Jews. Was his society any better? By examining societies that have sought to destroy religion, we can thus evaluate the merit of a lack of religion.

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Well before I start I want to say that my mom is very spiritual not in the sense of like believing in God and going to church everyday but she is more like the yoga type. She is into the Buddhist sayings. One thing she said to me is that people need to believe in something and they need guidance. She said that many people don’t look up to another human for guidance after the age of 30 and most people wont anyway. But believing in a figure like God makes you stay in peace with yourself and calm. Many people will be lost if religion didn't exist like if something went wrong they wouldn't have anything to look forward to and if one is pushed to extreme poverty they might lead into crime but the thought that God is looking at me and I can’t disrespect God keeps many people focused. Also there is a famous Bible story that proves that people always need guidance if you don't believe in the Bible it is ok just read this anyway you don't need to be religious. When the Jewish people were in the desert and they told Moses to go and talk to God that their living conditions weren't good so when Moses went to talk to God it took a little long and the people thought that he left them so they built a golden cow and prayed to it for guidance and help. This is just an abbreviation of a story that shows that people desperately need guidance all the time even after a short time they feel lost. So in my opinion religion is very important and people who don’t believe in god believe in a good life or something like a goal that keeps them on track but not everyone can do that.

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