Clessi welcome to trap 17! Anyways clessi I do not believe in god or a higher power and i still have hope so what do you mean? Truefusion, unfortunatly your right it will always end up being a debate and getting far off topic, but i wished it could have been a straight forward topic about would it be better or worse and why. I'm even guilty of doing this. Oh well.

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Not all religions believe in a higher power, or God, or gods. There's always Buddhism. I hear many atheists are a part of that religion. Many organized religions are based on three things: Faith, Hope, and Love. Love being the greatest of the three. Also, not one person in this world--who can make up their own mind--is not in a religion.

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Ty mate.
Well you got me on that one.. But Majority of elder population tend to believe there is an afterlife. So you can't really get rid of their beliefs or some of them will feel in despair. And the concept that doing good things & refraining from sinning will get you to heaven also helps people be nice people.

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Wow, 21 pages and still going strong on this topic



Nice to see you are taking a more restrained and informative approach to this topic But I have to disagree about people making about their minds being in religions.
I'm not anything, I'm not atheist and nor am I religious. I have made up my own mind without other people dictating to me what they think I should believe.



You have a point that being religious can make people 'nicer' however in the 'grand scheme' of things I think overall while individuals are capable of being nice the majority discriminate because of religion and harm others indirectly (like not helping others of differing beliefs) or directly (as is obvious with the current problems in places like Israel).
I resent the idea of sinning and hell however, especially the concept of original sin. For one it is disgustingly sexist and is responsible for the murder and torture of millions of women. It is also ridiculous to say that a baby is sinful. To me the idea is ludicrous. It's just another 'rule' set in place by bureaucracy to wheedle people into doing the 'right' thing while marginalising certain groups.
And the other thing is is that you don't need to be religious to be a good person. I believe strongly in being a kind and generous person, I like to 'pay it forward' as the saying goes. I always say "have a nice day" and genuinely mean it. I'm prolife. I believe that family is more important than work and having lots of money. I believe that all people are equal. That life is sacred. That love is one of the most important things in this world. That it is important that people have virtue and integrity etc etc etc. I am by no means religious. I respect that people can believe what they want to believe but I don't have to respect religion in and of itself. My six year old daughter chooses to believe in God (namely because one her friends at school inundates her with it) and I am very careful to respect that that is what she wants to believe in. But I also explain that people have a lot of different beliefs and that what is true for one person is different for another. I believe that she has the right to make up her own mind and if she chooses to be religious, it is her choice which religion that is. I'm not going to bias that by providing information on only one perspective as so many religions do.
People are perfectly capable of holding themselves in check. Many religions make people believe they are weak and need a higher power to keep them in control which is just not true. More people need to believe in themselves.

 

 

 

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Heh, thanks, i guess.

But let me clarify what i said so that you may understand on a bigger scale, on what i meant, so that you may know that i speak truth.

You may not consider yourself in an organized religion, or a "popular" religion, whatever (Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Hindu, etc). Understandable, however, you are in a religion. You are in the "Thorned Rose" religion. Get what i'm saying? Everyone has their own beliefs; like you said, you made up your own mind, thus belief what you want to believe. That is why i call it the "Thorned Rose" religion. Because it is specific to you, and maybe, to you only. Hope you understand where i'm going.

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From Wikipedia:


I do understand what you mean and perhaps I have a religion in your opinion or perspective but I am not religious by common consensus which interestingly and ironically is part of what defines religion - common consensus.
My point is and always has been that you don't need 'Religion' to be a good person or believe in God.

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Having no religion is like having a world without laws at all. Without religion, what says what is right or wrong? Is it human nature to do what is right? I think that there is a quite obvious answer to the question.

Next, a belief is a religion. Say... you believe in being gay. That IS a religion. You believe... killing people is wrong. A religion. You can't live without religion. Unless you don't think. If you think, you create a religion of your own.

I, personally, don't think it would be better. As of now, the people who believe in a *peaceful* religion keep themselves under control. If they wake up one morning and find they have no... definition of right and wrong... what are they going to do? You can't even tell. To get rid of religion you would have to eliminate all thought processes on the planet, cause there's always racial discrimination.

There's always jealousy. there's always hatred. These are things you cannot erase. They cannot disappear. Life is life.

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I'm so glad i made this topic haha.

OK first i would like to help out this confusion with Thorned Rose and Truefusion. Back some pages ago, i wouldn't try looking through the 20+ pages though, but he explained the same thing to me and now i understand and i never say I'm non religious. No one is. Here is how i can explain it. I will take it apart one piece at a time because i think this is a very important thing that people understand:

Wikipedia


Thorned Rose, you don't think you are the only one with the same exact beliefs as you do you? No it doesn't say anywhere in there organized it just says group of people.

Dictionary.com under group:


Now this means there only has to be TWO people in the entire world that has the same beliefs as you. Chances are someone does. I'm not trying to be silly about this, but truefusion is right. I'm an Atheist, and i'm in a religion. Also read Sharns 2nd paragraph. That would be considered a religion also.

Side note:
Anyone that says they believe in Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and believes in war or is a soldier that volunteered is a joke.

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You can believe what you want, I deal in logic.
I am one person out of billions and yet no other person has had exactly the same experiences as me. That makes me unique, as it does everyone else. I have come to my own truths based on my personal experience and knowledge. Last I looked, I was only one person with these experiences, knowledge and beliefs not a group of people (unless you are accusing me of Dissociative Identity Disorder). All my friends and those around me do not share those experiences, knowledge and beliefs - they are all individuals as well. Of course we share common morals and beliefs but that does not make those around me or those I know part of 'my' religion. Religion is shared and indoctrinated beliefs not commonality. If it only came down to having common beliefs there would be virtually only one religion in the world. Most people can agree on things like not killing, being kind to other people, prioritising love etc but that doesn't make them all of the some religion.
Atheism is not a religion. It is a state - the state in which a person believes in nothing. Although given the term 'atheist' is somewhat of a philosophical term, it is naturally open to debate.
As you said, it requires a group. And a group that agree on common beliefs etc. Once those things are agreed upon, it becomes indoctrinated and thus a religion.
Of course you can argue this point till the cows come home but you are only arguing semantics.
My point is and always has been, you do not *need* religion to be a good person. I am case in point of that fact.

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In my opinion religion is something that comes out of basic human need for understanding the purpose of his life and everything around him. Each and every one of us is inevitabely troubled by questions like: "Why am I here? What is the purpose of being here? Is there a God or something greater above us? If there is God, what God acctually is? Is it the Good that what preavails or is it the Bad? So people start looking for answers mostly in the nature. If everything in nature is in a sort of cycle then probably our life is also a sort of cycle - after winter there is spring and after summer there is always autumn; in life it is the same: after death comes life, after life comes death and after death comes life. It is acctually very simple - we exist as a part of nature and if in nature everything is circling then there is also a cycle of living and dying.

However, many people were and still are of course unable to understand all this and see things just as they are so this is why the religion came to being. A few people started explaining the answers to the questions set above and many people, though not fully understanding what they were talking about, felt deep inside that this is the truth. Around the world a few different variations of this answers exist but they are all talking about GOOD or should I say GOD?!

We should also differe between religion and faith. These are two very different concepts. All of us have faith: the difference is solely in the fact that we have faith that God exists or we have faith that God does not exist. Nobody has the proof neither that He exists nor that He does not so we are acctually in the same problem BUT the people who are able to have faith in God (Alah, GOOD, or any other name) know deep inside that this is the truth and this is the basic difference between those who have faith that God exists and those who have faith that God does not exist - if you really have faith you KNOW that this is so!

The basic teaching of each and every religion is: "DO GOOD & AVOID BAD!" and everything that differes from that sentence is just a sort of religious malfunction as was seen in the Crusades and now in the Holy War.

We can conclude that religion is important, because it is today a very rare source through which people can hear that one should do GOOD instead of evil. However what is the most important is FAITH - everything else (institutional religions,...) is just a sort of helpful guide towards faith, but in the end you are responsible for your actions and as the bible says:

one should see people through their deeds and not through their words!

So I would be a lot happier to have a GOOD ateist friend than a BAD christian or other religious person! And of course vice versa.

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