Read Latest Entries..: (Post #21) by Cerebral Stasis on Dec 7 2006, 10:20 PM. (Line Breaks Removed)
There is always the possibility that humanity could have come to a technological climax in the past that eventually left us without any records. In other words, maybe humanity has colonized the stars many times over, we just forget how. Case in point, the steam engine was first invented in Rome during the first century AD, and the steam-powered train was even proposed, although it was dismissed as... read more.
Ive wanted to have a glimpse of what ufos use for propulsion. I have some theories:
1. Sound waves emitted by them are altered to oppose the neutral sound present in any space. Sound is present anywhere. Its just particles that we need to utilize and transform it to sound.
2.The problem is that sound cant be used in vaccum that is the universe itself. Has anyone proved that lower and higher frequency of sounds not heard by the human ear can travel at a vaccum? With this matter, I thought that they are using sound waves on heavenly bodies with atmospheric conditions or simply has air. Maybe sound reproduction is the easiest way and possible way to levitate. Ive also noticed that most of the sound-producing UFOs has in anyway, not using theyre camouflaged. Maybe sound has an effect in it. Furthermore, maybe thats why we can see UFOs on radar and not see them. It seems like they having trouble in utilizing light propulsion and sound propulsion....
3.The third one which I think they use is Light propulsion, it can be the hardest but most productive type of propulsion they have, Changing colors of UFOs can be a proof. They are changing colors because they are manipulating the frequency of light to repel them. Its like opposing matter with the utilization of light. More specifically, imagine, the earth is a big magnet, and the magnetic waves in one spot of earth are constantly changing its strength. So they are contradicting that change by also changing the frequency of light in that same spot.
But in all my theories, maybe they see impossible, but aliens may have some elements that are not present in earth.
Thats all, i need Point of Informations and other supporting or contradicting ideas here. All are appreciated. Thanks.
Supposivley there was something on the history channel a few months ago, and on that show, they talked to a guy who claims he worked for the milliatry at Area 51. In his interview he said he helped fix and get running an actual UFO. He stated that it used a nuclear reactor and reverse gravity. I am skeptical on this guys statements, but hey it made for soem good TV.
I will agree with your 3rd option. o manipulate light would also explain the way they travel at supposive high speedswithin the blink of an eye and the impossible 90 degree turns.
Well as i understand it NO sound atall can ever travel in a vaccum because the whole point of sound is it is made of particles vibrating and in a vaccum there are no particles to vibrate, so therefore no sound. But if scientists are right that space is made of anti-matter then ould it be that anti-sound could be used there? In whic case its possible but im not sure how it could be used as propulsion. I think it is due to some kind of gravitational or magetic force to oppose that around them...but in space there is neither so again a problem there....
Ask the military they know but they are determined not to tell us...they hide so much and we need to find out the truth!
An episode from Futurama once had a scientist speaking:
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The engine does not propel the ship forward, rather, it moves the universe about it.
Now that was just so altruistic now, wasn't it? Allow me to offer my two cents on this, no matter how whimsical or impossible it may seem.
Scientists believe that all matter in the universe is subject to just four basic forces. All matter is held together, or pushed apart, by these fundamental forces: Gravity, Electromagnetic force, Strong nuclear force and Weak nuclear force. The understanding of these four forces has been heavily influenced by quantum electrodynamics, the theory that views all electromagnetic radiation not as a continuous beam of energy but a stream of energy in discrete packets called quanta.
These "packets", are known as photons in electromagnetic radiation. These photons can be thought of as both particle and wave; in wave from, it can travel even in vacuum as a self-sustaining syncronization of both electric and magnetic waves.
Hence the term "messenger particles". Photons are not exactly actual particles, contrary to the second word of the aforementioned term. Simply put, these mesenger particles are just the means by which the universe transmits packets of energy. Photons (or virtual photons, for some) are the messenger particles for the EM force. For the Strong nuclear force, we have the (virtual) pion, the stuff that, simply put, glues all the photons and neutrons together in the nucleus so that the particles don't go flying off in all directions by repelling other particles of the same charge.
The Weak nuclear force has W and Z particles. From a book: "When a neutron decays into a proton and an electron, W particles pass energy between the particles." I have just as much idea as you do on this.
Now, the force of interest, to me, is gravity, supposedly trasmitted by messenger particles called gravitons, as yet undetected. They are supposed to be of infinitesimal size, enabling them to travel an infinite distance.
When I encountered this knowledge, I have imagined the particles in the universe to be constantly "bursting" with gravitons continually. It is, graphically, a bit like radiation, where an unstable isotope gradually "sheds" itself in the form of alpha or beta particles. However, unlike radiation, these graviton-bursts do not cause the object to lose mass. Clear so far?
Now, I also imagined gravitons to
1) mysteriously pass "through" matter (after all, imagine how absurd it would be to be pushed away by a stream of gravitons from the earth? And considering how "massive" blackholes are, just imagine the graviton "firing" rate of such a blackhole. It would be stupid if particles supposedly drawn to it were pushed off)
2) "pull" any particle it passes through in the direction from whence it had come (In other words, a graviton ejected from the center of the earth would pull any matter it comes across towards the center of the earth)
Oookay, so far so good. now, imagine an alien technology that is capable of, not only detecting, but also manipulating gravitons. Already, we have encountered self-sustaining graviton-emitting engines in nature: blackholes. Now, what if this alien technology did just the opposite. Instead of emitting gravitons from itself, effectively attracting other objects to it, imagine the engine to be drawing gravitons to itself, attracting it to other objects.
This graviton "magnet" I have just described was pointless, really, 'coz it will just attract the object itself to all the other objects in the universe, effectively making it cavort around in a seemingly random fashion as the celestial bodies move about. However, if this "magnet" were to be "targettable", or controlled, we can, for all we know, make a craft go left, right, up, down, forward or back, as a matter of fact, go any direction we wish it to simply by targetting the "magnet" in the direction we wish the craft to go and turning the engine on. It can bank sharp curves or zoom at deadly speeds (although I have no wish to imagine how ill its occupants might be from all the hyper-roller-coaster ride).
I'm not sure it's credible, although I am definite it is possible. As the book I hold sayeth: "Gravity is the least understood of the four basic forces."
Oh, yeah. Simply put, an anti-gravity engine. It's not that, of course, but the notion is pretty much the same
Do not, I repeat Do NOT use this thread to resolve your personal issue. This could have been PMed to me. Copying of your own post should be under QUOTE since it was published BEFORE this board. It is not that you are plagiarizing but Trap17 cannot be "seen" as topics that copies other articles. DO NOT digress from the topic at hand.
The ideas would make for some great science fiction, but since, as has been said, sound needs particles to vibrate, it wouldn't work in space. As for the light thing, I don't really see how one would make a ship move by opposing gravitational forces with light. Is this just for an anti-gravity drive, or is it to actually move through space?
Supposivley there was something on the history channel a few months ago, and on that show, they talked to a guy who claims he worked for the milliatry at Area 51. In his interview he said he helped fix and get running an actual UFO. He stated that it used a nuclear reactor and reverse gravity. I am skeptical on this guys statements, but hey it made for soem good TV.
I am pretty sure that you are talking about Bob Lazar. He allegedly claimed that he is from Area 51 and Area S2. He was under a top secret reverse engineering of UFO, according to him. And finally, he was fired from the job because he brought friends at a certain peak near Area 51 to watch some (supposed) UFO flight tests by Area 51 engineers or scientists. However, documents have vanished supporting his claim.
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Well as i understand it NO sound atall can ever travel in a vaccum because the whole point of sound is it is made of particles vibrating and in a vaccum there are no particles to vibrate, so therefore no sound.
As far as Technological Advancement of the Human race is concerned, sound traveling at a vaccum may not be possible. But what if ultra low and ultra frequencies are able to? or Sounds of this frequencies may be able to travel not within the vaccum but across the vaccum, from one side to another? I am thinking that this two variant of frequencies maybe used by UFO to travel fast. Traveling along side a sound frequency with such great speed is not possible.
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imagine an alien technology that is capable of, not only detecting, but also manipulating gravitons
Exactly! But what if they have discovered other fundamental forces unknown to man because we haven't caught a glimpse of it yet? Simply put it like this, scientists and some researchers already assume that elements that they have found throughout the solar system composes most of the Galaxy. Putting it in to the context of Statistics, the Solar System is not large enough be a sample space from the population which is the universe itself. Putting it into numbers one can ask if a Star, the sun, with planetary objects and astronomic objects can be a representative of 100 million, million stars so far? Hundreds of elements my exist from areas throughout the universe. The problem of the Human race is that in general, we have the inability to think in a 4 or more dimensional perspective of space.
And if I am not mistaken, what you are trying to point about is the concept of the "Anti-Matter" which is supposed to contradict every existing matter. Right? Bob Lazar stated that the UFO they have observed contained the original Element 115 that helped the craft flew from space. Element 115 doesn't exists the time Lazar presented himself to the Discovery Channel but a few years later a synthetic Element 115 was created but only existed on a matter of micro or nanoseconds.
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The ideas would make for some great science fiction, but since, as has been said, sound needs particles to vibrate, it wouldn't work in space.
Particles do exists in space. Space dust, anyone?
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As for the light thing, I don't really see how one would make a ship move by opposing gravitational forces with light. Is this just for an anti-gravity drive, or is it to actually move through space?
Light as we all know has the property to travel at an enormous amount of speed. And as the formula says by the Great Einstein, e = mc^2, which basically can mean that an object approaches the speed of light, its mass increases infinitely. This formula can be a contradiction if we put light as particles or corpuscles which is old school topic. So we assume light is also a wave energy. The idea is pretty much the same as sound travel. My whole point in the last two ideas is that what IF UFOs need not travel through space and time continuum but travel through sound and light frequencies according to their purpose of travel. If certain civilizations have reached great advancement in technology, they may have found out how to transform a ship or probably one of their kind to a sound or light frequency and travel side by side with light or faster than light without wasting energy?
To make it simpler, one can visualize if like this: Light(supposed) Highway or Gateway =================================== ship <-> ---------------------------> ship <-> ===================================
by making themselves, other civilizations, composed of other matter. They can freely accelerate and decelerate at their own will and change their composition to their original one.
Furthermore, it can be like this: A data when sent from another computer can take 10-20 minutes.(supposed) But if it, the data, was zipped and sent it would take less to transfer it. The idea can be the same but UFOs can maximize the utilization of this idea a few more times if possible in their context.
Yeah, lotsa space dust out there... but if you're religious, would you say it's really angel dust? LoL
Anyway, my theory on a propulsion system is there are several aliens sitting around with tubes up their rears and each are eating out of a large can of beans. That is why the space ships are always glowing... all that gas developing around it.
Aeon, although data can be "zipped" by compressing, or "optimizing" the language in which the data is being transferred, solid matter wouldn't work that way. You couldn't have less matter and then make more out of it when you go there.
One of the only ways that scientists think one could "travel faster than light" would be to travel through another dimension in which two points are connected. For example, imagine a cloth that's folded in half. In order to reach the other side, you would have to travel first up to the crease, and then back down, but if you could punch a hole through the cloth and go through the ripple, the distance would be but a fraction. That's the concept with which scientists primarily consider faster-than-light travel in space possible, and as far as we know, it's the most likely (and practically only possible) option.
Aeon, although data can be "zipped" by compressing, or "optimizing" the language in which the data is being transferred, solid matter wouldn't work that way. You couldn't have less matter and then make more out of it when you go there.
One of the only ways that scientists think one could "travel faster than light" would be to travel through another dimension in which two points are connected. For example, imagine a cloth that's folded in half. In order to reach the other side, you would have to travel first up to the crease, and then back down, but if you could punch a hole through the cloth and go through the ripple, the distance would be but a fraction. That's the concept with which scientists primarily consider faster-than-light travel in space possible, and as far as we know, it's the most likely (and practically only possible) option.
That's exactly the perspective of it. It reality they don't have to "zipped"/"unzipped" themselves but rather travel at a different perspective. If one has to view it in general, zipping and unzipping and transfer of data is also like traveling from a point to a point without exerting force or traveling the absolute distance between the two points. A program that can zip can be the entrance of the loop hole in space and the unzipping program can be another loop hole. Scientists assumed that within this loop hole you are able to go through a different side of the universe without traveling the true distance. If you were "zipped" and transferred, let's say for a minute, but if you were not "zipped", it would take you 5-10 minutes. In the "zipped" object's point of view it can actually assume that he got through the two points by simply "teleporting", in layman's term, the distance. But in our view, the object traveled the same distance but with great speed.
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Anyway, my theory on a propulsion system is there are several aliens sitting around with tubes up their rears and each are eating out of a large can of beans. That is why the space ships are always glowing... all that gas developing around it.
Nice theory. I would be amazed if aliens did this to their ship. That's a lot of beans. I wonder what beans they have? Magic beans anyone?
There is always the possibility that humanity could have come to a technological climax in the past that eventually left us without any records. In other words, maybe humanity has colonized the stars many times over, we just forget how. Case in point, the steam engine was first invented in Rome during the first century AD, and the steam-powered train was even proposed, although it was dismissed as a bad idea, due to how it would leave Rome with a bunch of slaves who had been busy transporting people without a "job". Yet, the concept was forgotten for another seven hundred years, before it again began to pick up steam (if you'll pardon the pun).
As far as UFO propulsion goes, I'd say that, based on what I have read and seen in articles/documentaries, we're pretty much stuck here in the Sol system, at least for the foreseeable future.
They might have made some other kind of wave. Maybe a thought wave. They just have to think to move. Or maybe a touch wave. They point in the direction. Or maybe even a smell wave!
No. That's crazy. Although I am aware Copernicus was once called crazy too
QUOTE(tractor @ Dec 2 2006, 11:53 AM)
I don't think there would be any UFO's because they would have to travel along way.
I initially thought this statement was true but then, my mental gears churned out some ideas: 1. UFO's are almost always assumed to be alien spacecraft. If so, they will be traveling long ways, unless they live just on the other side of the moon. 2. Then there is also the possibility that if UFO's were crafted by non-human sapient civilization, they might not even be from other planets. They could be here too, living on the ocean depths, in the asthenosphere or, like I said, on the dark side of the moon.ote from Futurama:
3. It is also possible that they are man-made. We have the technology but we're not telling
So, you see, UFO's may non-necessarily be extra-terrestrial technology.
Technically, UFO's are just anything moving or suspended in midair, which you cannot identify. So if you're really young and have seen a balloon floating in air for the first time, you technically have seen a UFO
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis @ Dec 5 2006, 03:20 AM)
If you turn on a flashlight and set it on a desk, it does not move.
I've been thinking about this... If, for a moment's suspension of belief, light does propel something using Newton's Third Law of Motion, then a really, REALLY, REALLY powerful laser might do the trick. However, with the number of UFO sightings worldwide, such a propulsion technology would have probably burned the planet off a long time ago.
I'm not sure if I already shared this; if I did, allow me another chance to share a qu
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The engine does not propel the ship forward. Instead, it moves the entire universe about it.
Boy, that'd be fun, hm? Difficult to maneuver, yes, but still fun, nonetheless
1. Heat waves that emit out faster then the air around it making trust. You could also use radio waves or sound waves.
Problem is that heat and sound travel through the air, and therefore cannot move "faster" than the air it is moving through.
QUOTE(tractor @ Dec 1 2006, 08:53 PM)
2.We could also use some kind of air truster like jets on the underside witch can be pointed in different drections. And trust high speed air out. But this would creat noise. And UFO's don't make noise. But we could also use some kind of lightwave propulsion. But this would make light. Unless it was a very low wave.
If you turn on a flashlight and set it on a desk, it does not move. The fiction against the air far surpasses the thrust generated by photons. The only feasable way to use light itself to move, as far as we know, is via solar sails, and that is because they reflect the photons. From every light source, photons are given out in all directions. True, we can focus the light, but the photons are still putting the same amount of thrust all around the source, thus cancelling out any thrust it may create.
QUOTE(tractor @ Dec 1 2006, 08:53 PM)
3. They might have made some other kind of wave. Maybe a thought wave. They just have to think to move. Or maybe a touch wave. They point in the direction. Or maybe even a smell wave!
I don't know much about UFO propulsion... guess nobody really knows ... except maybe the guys in Aria 51. Anyway I think the most important thing in space propulsion is range and speed. That means you have to travel a long way will a small quantity of fuel and fast enough to get you you want in a generation or so. Considering those facts I think the best technology (if you can call it that since it is only in theory) would be Star Trek's warp drive. It may sound weird but the guys at NASA are really taking it serious. If antimatter really exists you could find it everywhere in space, literally everywhere. So you don't have to store it anywhere you just take what you need from space. Once again, if antimatter does exist it is thought to be the next step in energy after nuclear fusion. It gives much much more energy and in theory you can practically use any kind of matter to create the reaction. Matter and antimatter reaction is only a part of the propulsion system. You have a very efficient engine, but how can you make a ship travel near the speed of light and above it (if that is possible of course... which to this day is impossible according to the Einstein's theory... on the other hand there have been some experiments recently with particles that were accelerated beyond the speed of light which may prove it is possible although way out of our present knowledge). Star Trek's warp drive worked on a simple principle. It is hard to make a ship travel beyond the speed of light, so why not compress the very fabric of space in order to fly faster. In theory the engine makes a bubble around the spaceship. In front of the spaceship space is compressed (just like when you have a piece of paper and you want to get from one corner to the other you foil the paper and voila) and behind the spaceship space is expanded.
I believe in the UFO phenomenon and I think that if a species lives long enough it can do anything with the help of science. There is no limit when you have millions of years of civilization, of science and knowledge behind you. We have gone so far in the last 100 year, I can only imagine what it will happen in the next 100 years, but even imagination is not enough if you think how the world will look in 5000 or 10000 years. maybe then even the distant stars will not be a limit...
1. Heat waves that emit out faster then the air around it making trust. You could also use radio waves or sound waves.
2.We could also use some kind of air truster like jets on the underside witch can be pointed in different drections. And trust high speed air out. But this would creat noise. And UFO's don't make noise. But we could also use some kind of lightwave propulsion. But this would make light. Unless it was a very low wave.
3. They might have made some other kind of wave. Maybe a thought wave. They just have to think to move. Or maybe a touch wave. They point in the direction. Or maybe even a smell wave!
4. I don't think there would be any UFO's because they would have to travel along way.
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... except maybe the guys in Aria 51. Anyway I think the most important thing in space propulsion is range and speed. That means you have to travel a long way will a small quantity of fuel and fast enough to get you you want in a generation or so.
