sweet_princess
Apr 25 2007, 05:34 PM
You might have heard a lot of people going on about how their religion is true but I'm not going to rant on about anything, I'm just going to tell you the straight-forward facts. The Qur'an has many scientific truths that have only been proven to be correct recently. This is truely a miracle in my eyes, so please go on to this website and read about 'em now! http://www.islam-guide.com/If you don't agree with me (which I doubt you will), don't worry, I'm not going to kill you Some facts about Islam: The Qur'an says that The Torah was written by Prophet Moses, but the scripture was only made for the people of that time and community, same for the Bible, it was a true book but was only meant for a particular group, and the Bible has been changed by humans, and now we'll never know what the original message was. Then God finally sent down a last prophet with a last message which is meant to last for all eternity. God promised us that one word of the Qur'an will never change until the last day of the world (and even after that), and that promise has surly been fulfilled. Islam also teaches us equality and forbids racism and slavery, Prophet Muhammad said that no white man is superior to a black man and vice versa. Muhammad (peace be upon him) had an african friend who was disliked by the people around him, but this hatred ended when Muhammad told everyone that they shouldn't treat him badly because they were true brothers. Sweet or what? Islam also frowns upon war and violence (don't consider bin laden, they're just freaks who call themselves muslims. It the freaks you should be scared of, not the muslims) Islam also says that Jesus will return one day, when the world will be coming to an end, and muslims are waiting! Well those were just a few facts, remember to go on that website please!
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OpaQue
Apr 25 2007, 10:43 PM
Got any info about the oldest religion on Earth ?
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Smack
Apr 25 2007, 11:05 PM
A lot of religion has some truths to it - that's what makes them believable. If people made up a religion that didn't have some truth to it and was totally incomprehinsible there would be no followers and not many would ever hear about it. Though the 'true religion' could actually have been one of those. According to NewScientist an aboriginal peoples of Australia have the oldest religion on Earth. They say this cause supposedly they found some cave paintings that are around 6,000 years old. The top hit on Google says Hinduism is the oldest religion, still others say witchcraft. Yahoo! Answers says Zoroastrianism (a religion once practiced by today's Iranians) is the oldest religion which began around 1000 BC. Though it says this religion is monotheistic, and I thought the first religions were polytheistic.
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truefusion
Apr 26 2007, 04:52 AM
QUOTE(sweet_princess @ Apr 25 2007, 01:34 PM)  ...and the Bible has been changed by humans... And how do we know that? Simple, because we have found more reliable copies—the ones without human interference—which provide the true message, and which the current and up-to-date Bible translations are based on.  QUOTE(sweet_princess @ Apr 25 2007, 01:34 PM) God promised us that one word of the Qur'an will never change until the last day of the world (and even after that), and that promise has surly been fulfilled. Which one word is that?
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Smack
Apr 26 2007, 01:16 PM
QUOTE(truefusion @ Apr 25 2007, 11:52 PM) QUOTE ...and the Bible has been changed by humans... And how do we know that? Simple, because we have found more reliable copies—the ones without human interference—which provide the true message, and which the current and up-to-date Bible translations are based on. The Bible wasn't just changed by humans, it was written by humans. See the fallacy? Do you know when humans were first on this Earth? Not seven days after the Earth was here.  Lots of talk of God, though who here has ever talked to him? If you say you do nowadays you're automatically labeled as crazy! Wonder why.. hmm. 
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electriic ink
Apr 26 2007, 02:54 PM
QUOTE(Smack) it was written by humans. See the fallacy? It was meant to be written by humans who were just copying God's word. QUOTE(Smack) Do you know when humans were first on this Earth? Not seven days after the Earth was here. 10. Often, days. a particular time or period Not all days are 24hrs long. QUOTE(Smack) Lots of talk of God, though who here has ever talked to him? If you say you do nowadays you're automatically labeled as crazy! Wonder why.. hmm. Isn't prayer the communication between man and God - or talking to him?
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Smack
Apr 26 2007, 04:22 PM
"Prayer" is just talking to yourself and having faith that a higher power is listening. I know that all days are not 24 hours long because a day depends on the amount of time it takes a body to orbit a star - duh. And the writers of the gospel were possessed by the holy spirit to write down God's true words. Yes I know all the opposite "truths" to this argument cause I am an informed educated person that was raised Christian and I have openly debated these things with friends and people in the Church. However when it comes down to all religions you have to rely on this little thing called faith. Also there are many stories in the Bible that are remakes of older stories. ...Just ask your English professor.
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truefusion
Apr 27 2007, 12:03 AM
QUOTE(Smack @ Apr 26 2007, 09:16 AM) The Bible wasn't just changed by humans, it was written by humans. See the fallacy? QUOTE(Smack @ Apr 26 2007, 12:22 PM) And the writers of the gospel were possessed by the holy spirit to write down God's true words. (I hope you understand my implication.)
QUOTE(Smack @ Apr 26 2007, 12:22 PM) "Prayer" is just talking to yourself and having faith that a higher power is listening. What then when a prayer is fulfilled? But let's go in further: Would it have happened if you didn't pray for it? QUOTE(Smack @ Apr 26 2007, 12:22 PM) [1]I am an informed educated person that was raised Christian and [2]I have openly debated these things with friends and people in the Church. [1]Are you implying that none of us believers are informed and or educated as well? [2]Not everyone knows the same things. Some people go to church just to go or say that they went. And of course you know church isn't all about learning Scripture, it is also there for gaining hope and praising and singing in unity, etc. Everything i've heard being preached in church i already knew. Perhaps you would like to debate your opposite "truths" here? It is, after all, a fitting topic. QUOTE(Smack @ Apr 26 2007, 12:22 PM) ...Just ask your English professor. So we could ask any, even one who is known to be an unbeliever? Could the "facts" then be biased?
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Tetraca
Apr 27 2007, 12:46 AM
I am agnostic, and as such I cannot say that any religion is true.
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OpaQue
Apr 27 2007, 04:08 AM
Before understanding true religion, people who constantly debate over these topics must understand that they must realize the purpose of the religion. Every religion has 1 purpose, to get the follower on the path of inner peace. It might instruct people differently .. however, if all religions are to be studied properly, they all have something in common. Understanding a religion is easy.. but realizing the core meaning of the purpose of any religion is the goal of the religion. Once you realize it, no matter what religion you follow.. its all the same. Since your goal is one. :-) Just my 2 cents.
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xistars
Feb 8 2008, 12:16 PM
QUOTE(omarsdali @ Jan 24 2008, 03:20 PM) I think she what she meant to say was that God promised us that NOT one word of the Qur'an will ever change until the last day of the world
You can't say any religion is false either.
I wouldn't use the word 'founded' because the prophet didn't make the religion himself, he was just a messenger delivering a message. you got all the answers omar. I myself a muslim, and I found that: 1. Quran lead the way to science, just take a look to www.harunyahya.com 2. Islam is a rational religion,not filled by doctrins 3. It has a very - very special place for women, they are exclusive and protected in Islam. etc.. these things were just several reasons why I decide to BE A MUSLIM.
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omarsdali
Jan 24 2008, 08:20 AM
QUOTE QUOTE(sweet_princess @ Apr 25 2007, 01:34 PM) *
God promised us that one word of the Qur'an will never change until the last day of the world (and even after that), and that promise has surly been fulfilled.
Which one word is that? wink.gif I think she what she meant to say was that God promised us that NOT one word of the Qur'an will ever change until the last day of the world QUOTE I am agnostic, and as such I cannot say that any religion is true. You can't say any religion is false either. QUOTE and was founded by the “prophet” Muhammad I wouldn't use the word 'founded' because the prophet didn't make the religion himself, he was just a messenger delivering a message.
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Evolke
Jan 24 2008, 03:54 AM
Interesting. Ive got no religion and Im kinda happy with that, only because if you've got no religion you dont debate which is the 'True' religion. and you will accept and listen to other religions. I know this happens with Buddaism {Is that how its spelt} but you get the picture. Ill check to site out becuase Ive alway been interested in learning other religions. Thanks for the Post 
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Smack
Apr 30 2007, 05:36 AM
QUOTE(truefusion @ Apr 29 2007, 08:55 PM) [1]No, i did my own research—i've read plenty of Gnostic texts; the Gospel of Judas being one of them, of course—it claims more than one god: contradiction to a monotheistic religion. There are other Gnostic texts that take Names that are known to be attributed to God (Jehovah, YahWeh, etc) and claim that each name is a different god—all created gods, however, because in these stories they (all those gods) just "came to be," basically, through some background force.
I do realise many Gnostics can be good people and have good morals; but the texts still exist.
[2:1]I know exactly what you're talking about; you're basically repeating everything i heard and seen in videos and read.
[2:2]You mean "shepard"? "One who gathers 'sheep' or 'lambs'"? I know what you're talking, but that doesn't change anything. I don't recall, however, this "shepard" being the first of all creation of whom all things were made through and being the ultimate atonement for sin.
[2:3]It's not "basically the same thing," the other one is a bit illogical. They both also happened for different reasons. The event is still possible; however, only one can be accurate in the telling of the event.
[2:4]Define: "religious."
All the events could have happened, it's just the one that holds the most facts and the one that is logical and coincides with the facts that is the accurate one in the telling of the event.
[3]I know.
[4]What part doesn't make sense? I see no circles in my statement that could cause confusion. Please be more specific and i will try to explain it better, if possible.
[5]Define: "original form."
[5:2]Didn't we find "something that was written"? Would we be able to claim that they are the Gospels if we didn't?
[6]I only agree with him somewhat. Some religions preach personal peace through self-indulgence, whether or not it is at the expense of others—this is not the proper way to promote personal "peace." Another thing, however, is if the religion makes statements claiming them to be true but don't coincide with reality and certain known facts (i.e. facts that don't have a possibility of a logical contradiction that coincide with other facts), you'll lose believers or have "followers" that are not devout, therefore any personal peace may not be attained (properly {and may make things worse for the human population}). 1. yes i know these things 2. okay 3. no i'm talking about a sect that once occurred during the times of the pharoahs, the 'light skinned' god prince dude.. but I can't back this up with anything because I cannot remember the name 4. the old story of the great flood when he traveled far and wide to meet an oracle that told him to build an arc and he would be saved from the great flood (..that sounds almost little bit right of the story) seems to be the same to me 5. religious - going to church every sunday monday wednesday and friday nights. running several christian organizations throughout the school and etc. 6. original form meaning what was said the first time. remember that activity in grade school where the sentence was told at one end of the line and by the time it got to the other it was different. thats how story telling works, each person adds their own style to it. 7. yes because a gospel is just 'good word' which can be anything 8. yes not all religions are perfect social institutions.
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truefusion
Apr 30 2007, 01:55 AM
QUOTE(Smack @ Apr 29 2007, 06:10 PM) [1]I assume you heard this after the Gospel of Judas resurfaced which many gnostics see as something that really isn't a big deal. [. . .]
[2:1]What I was talking about when I said the Bible took stuff - is how there are stories in the Egyptian religion that was made way before Christianity and Judaism [2:2]that describe and tell stories of someone that resembles the same person that we call Jesus Christ. [2:3And also the story of "Noah and the ark" that is really a rewrite of an old story that is basically the same thing...] I can't remember the name of the story but I read it junior year in high school while I was taking sophomore college english... It's driving me nuts! I read it at the same time I read the epic of Gilgamesh and that one story with the lake of fire... [2:4My professor was a real religious Christian (duh - I live in Texas) who made us read many many stories that had religious elements and stuff that she said the Bible took from and then some that the Bible inspired.] She is definitely not what right wings call 'one of those liberal nuts.' She might of been the one doing the name calling! But then I had another english professor that was the head of the department who was liberal and she agreed with everything the other said about the stories the Bible took from and stuff... [. . .]
[3]And the whole point of saying the Bible took stories was to say that all religions take stories and that they all hold truths and fairy tales. [4]And your second paragraph doesn't make too much sense - it's just something that runs into circles upon circles. [5]Most of the gospels in the Bible were not written down in original form and were just spoken for many many years and so were the stories of old [5:2]but if we can find something that was written we can find out how old it was and prove it's age using carbon but this only shows how old it was when it was written, not when it was spoken.
[6]ANYWAYS, I agree with OpaQue. [1]No, i did my own research—i've read plenty of Gnostic texts; the Gospel of Judas being one of them, of course—it claims more than one god: contradiction to a monotheistic religion. There are other Gnostic texts that take Names that are known to be attributed to God (Jehovah, YahWeh, etc) and claim that each name is a different god—all created gods, however, because in these stories they (all those gods) just "came to be," basically, through some background force. I do realise many Gnostics can be good people and have good morals; but the texts still exist. [2:1]I know exactly what you're talking about; you're basically repeating everything i heard and seen in videos and read. [2:2]You mean "shepard"? "One who gathers 'sheep' or 'lambs'"? I know what you're talking, but that doesn't change anything. I don't recall, however, this "shepard" being the first of all creation of whom all things were made through and being the ultimate atonement for sin. [2:3]It's not "basically the same thing," the other one is a bit illogical. They both also happened for different reasons. The event is still possible; however, only one can be accurate in the telling of the event. [2:4]Define: "religious." All the events could have happened, it's just the one that holds the most facts and the one that is logical and coincides with the facts that is the accurate one in the telling of the event. [3]I know. [4]What part doesn't make sense? I see no circles in my statement that could cause confusion. Please be more specific and i will try to explain it better, if possible. [5]Define: "original form." [5:2]Didn't we find "something that was written"? Would we be able to claim that they are the Gospels if we didn't? [6]I only agree with him somewhat. Some religions preach personal peace through self-indulgence, whether or not it is at the expense of others—this is not the proper way to promote personal "peace." Another thing, however, is if the religion makes statements claiming them to be true but don't coincide with reality and certain known facts (i.e. facts that don't have a possibility of a logical contradiction that coincide with other facts), you'll lose believers or have "followers" that are not devout, therefore any personal peace may not be attained (properly {and may make things worse for the human population}).
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