Hacking - What Is It And How Is It Related To My Hosting? - Doubt about the rules
de4thpr00f
Dec 3 2007, 06:57 AM
I was reading the Trap17 rules and i noticied that hacking tools are illegal at trap17. What i want to know is what is considered for you guys (trap people or not) as an hack tool? My opinion is that an hack is something that breaks a system. Like brute force a password, or get inside a system and change some values. But what about a bot? (a bot is something that automatically do a job for you, like an anti-virus, search the virus and clean them) As a programmer, it's a problem fighting hackers.
Hacking in generally used term is performing an action that is out of device's ordinary or original intent. When I say device I am referring to all that are meant to function in any means by programming.
Bot is considered a hacking tool. Otherwise it won't be called a bot, that is unless you're referring to a batch action. Two are different. Bot is a hacking tool since the installment of this bot is to create a behavior that was not originally intended for a locale. Hence, it's doing something out of the ordinary other than the original programming.
If you are trying to defend your website against other hackers, you are trying to build a firewall--which Trap17 hosting provides without any additional means from hosted members. A defending "bot" would obtain hacker's information and inject something in return as a favor. But what you are attempting to do is just to log hacking attempts this is not called a bot but a mere well written log script.
So define what you're trying to achieve and we can then discuss if it's against TOS and AUP
Well, i was reading the rules and i found an interesting thing, hacking tools are forbidden. This doesn't surprise me, but what do you guys consider hacking? FOr me hacking is an attempt of breaking a security hole, changing some values on the server/website not for own profit, but for the simple reason of making sure that they know that you was in there. But what about a bot? (a bot is a program that works for you) Like an anti-virus, it searchs for the virus on your computer and removes the infected files, instead of you searching for mallicious code mannually. But there are bots for many things, my question is: This bots are considered illegal too? As a programmer, hacking is a thread that is always on my head, wich way can they hack my code, etc. And bots are always on my head too, writting a code that does anything for me is what i do many times.
Ok, here i'll let what i've found about hacking:
QUOTE
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hack may refer to:
* Hack (technology), a term used in the technology and computer science fields * Hack (masonry), a row of stacked unfired bricks protected from the rain * Hack writer, a writer who is paid to write low-quality, quickly put-together articles or books * Hack and slash, a genre of video game or a type of gameplay * Life hack, productivity techniques used by programmers * Roof and tunnel hacking, unauthorized exploration of roof and utility tunnel spaces * What the Hack, a hacker conference held in Liempde, The Netherlands * .hack, a Japanese multimedia franchise * Hack Circle, an amphitheatre in Christchurch, New Zealand referred to as "Hack" * ROM hacking, the process of modifying a video game's program image
So, an hack is everything that change a source code, right?
well, i have quite strict views on "hacking". i think that hacking is the unauthorised use of computer and network resources. i also happened to know that the term 'hacker' originally referred to a very gifted programmer.
i really hate people who call themselves hackers but are really obtaining other people's passwords through very amateur methods. at our school, it was recently discovered that someone had installed a key logger on every computer in the school, and now people are going around saying 'oh, look, i've hacked your password'. no, you haven't, stupid. you have merely read the log file.
others believe that looking at someone while they're typing their password is a very good method of 'hacking'. no, it isn't. you have merely looked over a person's shoulder while they are typing their password and have the mental capacity to remember what they have typed.
i believe that REAL hacking is code. if you can make your own little bit of code to get into the school admin, for example, then THAT is hacking. no, not looking over a teacher's shoulder while they are slowly typing it one key at a time. anyone can do that. being a real hacker takes SKILL, and that is why i heavily admire hackers.
at school, i am an honourary member of the programming club. whenever anything bad happens on the school computers, then we are the ones who always get blamed for it. the teacher who supervises our meetings is probably the only one ion the school who believes us when we say that it isn't us. the school admin have heavily restricted access to the school computers, and this is something which i don't like. we have an internet filter provided by the state department of education and training, which is now a WHITELIST this means that they have blocked access to all sites, and then MANUALLY unblock the sites that they think we should have access to. now, i partially understand them, however i think they have gone too far with this. i mean, what's the point of being able to go into google if you cannot access any of the websites that come up as search results? it is horrible! we are forced to use cached versions of websites to even be able to view them! and also trap17, and therefore my website, are blocked @
now to the actual school computers. we have a 'student terminal server', which we are required to log in to if we want to use programs like word, photoshop etc. the only problem is, the server is so laggy that it takes photoshop (7.01, by the way ) an hour to start up! the only things you can use without logging on are internet explorer, notepad and wmp (windows media player). that's basically it.
you're not really meant to access your usb without logging on, however we at programming club found out that right clicking on the start menu -> explore works! we can access all those folders
around a week ago, they disabled this as well! luckily though, my usb is u3, so i can access it at any time via the u3 launchpad icon in the taskbar.
however, i dont like these restrictions, and i dont like the student terminal server. AND i dont like the proxy filter of the det.
so, my question is: taking in mind all of these restrictions which have been imposed on us, do you think it is ethical if:
a) we at programming club installed dev c++ (our favourite c++ coding program), because all the school offered was an extremely outdated version of visual c++, which i HATE anyway, and we have to use it from the student terminal server, on where we dont have to log on (where we cant explore the start menu now, ie where you are when you turn on the computer, before you log on), and did this on all of the school computers, so that we could use dev c++, a good program, and not lagging on the student terminal server, and; we have a great urge to hack both the school admin account, to reinstate some of our computer privileges, or even better to create our own little admin account for discreet use, however we will not misuse this (we would use this for example installing dev c++, textpad, updated photoshop and other programs which are necessities for us). also, to find a way around the proxy filter, because it is really killing our internet usage
do you think these things are morally correct to do?
well, i have quite strict views on "hacking". i think that hacking is the unauthorised use of computer and network resources. i also happened to know that the term 'hacker' originally referred to a very gifted programmer.
i really hate people who call themselves hackers but are really obtaining other people's passwords through very amateur methods. at our school, it was recently discovered that someone had installed a key logger on every computer in the school, and now people are going around saying 'oh, look, i've hacked your password'. no, you haven't, stupid. you have merely read the log file.
others believe that looking at someone while they're typing their password is a very good method of 'hacking'. no, it isn't. you have merely looked over a person's shoulder while they are typing their password and have the mental capacity to remember what they have typed.
i believe that REAL hacking is code. if you can make your own little bit of code to get into the school admin, for example, then THAT is hacking. no, not looking over a teacher's shoulder while they are slowly typing it one key at a time. anyone can do that. being a real hacker takes SKILL, and that is why i heavily admire hackers.
at school, i am an honourary member of the programming club. whenever anything bad happens on the school computers, then we are the ones who always get blamed for it. the teacher who supervises our meetings is probably the only one ion the school who believes us when we say that it isn't us. the school admin have heavily restricted access to the school computers, and this is something which i don't like. we have an internet filter provided by the state department of education and training, which is now a WHITELIST this means that they have blocked access to all sites, and then MANUALLY unblock the sites that they think we should have access to. now, i partially understand them, however i think they have gone too far with this. i mean, what's the point of being able to go into google if you cannot access any of the websites that come up as search results? it is horrible! we are forced to use cached versions of websites to even be able to view them! and also trap17, and therefore my website, are blocked @
now to the actual school computers. we have a 'student terminal server', which we are required to log in to if we want to use programs like word, photoshop etc. the only problem is, the server is so laggy that it takes photoshop (7.01, by the way ) an hour to start up! the only things you can use without logging on are internet explorer, notepad and wmp (windows media player). that's basically it.
you're not really meant to access your usb without logging on, however we at programming club found out that right clicking on the start menu -> explore works! we can access all those folders
around a week ago, they disabled this as well! luckily though, my usb is u3, so i can access it at any time via the u3 launchpad icon in the taskbar.
however, i dont like these restrictions, and i dont like the student terminal server. AND i dont like the proxy filter of the det.
so, my question is: taking in mind all of these restrictions which have been imposed on us, do you think it is ethical if:
a) we at programming club installed dev c++ (our favourite c++ coding program), because all the school offered was an extremely outdated version of visual c++, which i HATE anyway, and we have to use it from the student terminal server, on where we dont have to log on (where we cant explore the start menu now, ie where you are when you turn on the computer, before you log on), and did this on all of the school computers, so that we could use dev c++, a good program, and not lagging on the student terminal server, and; we have a great urge to hack both the school admin account, to reinstate some of our computer privileges, or even better to create our own little admin account for discreet use, however we will not misuse this (we would use this for example installing dev c++, textpad, updated photoshop and other programs which are necessities for us). also, to find a way around the proxy filter, because it is really killing our internet usage
do you think these things are morally correct to do?
Im just throwing this out there... so say what you want with this
You said you admire hackers, as in you want to be/are one. you have the urge to hack, meaning you have been given a "*cough* permission *cough*" ?
if the above are true, then just install netbus on a computer that a teacher uses.... do it without having to log on so they cant track you, and control it from your home computer (while running a IP camo) so they cant track you. Bam, theres your teacher pw (or admin if you can jump to one of there computers)
also, you should be able to unblock sites. try running mozilla firefox off your flash drive. if the sites still dont work, type in your schools ip address at the address. you should get a box with stuff that is blocked/unblocked
Bthaxor, Did your school block google translate? It is technically a proxy through the google servers. Just use the translate a web page option, put in the website, pick any language, and bam! You can access most things. If your school blocked google translate on the other hand.. Nothing I know that you can do besides the admin thing.
"well, i have quite strict views on "hacking". i think that hacking is the unauthorised use of computer and network resources. i also happened to know that the term 'hacker' originally referred to a very gifted programmer.
QUOTE
i really hate people who call themselves hackers but are really obtaining other people's passwords through very amateur methods. at our school, it was recently discovered that someone had installed a key logger on every computer in the school, and now people are going around saying 'oh, look, i've hacked your password'. no, you haven't, stupid. you have merely read the log file.
others believe that looking at someone while they're typing their password is a very good method of 'hacking'. no, it isn't. you have merely looked over a person's shoulder while they are typing their password and have the mental capacity to remember what they have typed.
i believe that REAL hacking is code. if you can make your own little bit of code to get into the school admin, for example, then THAT is hacking. no, not looking over a teacher's shoulder while they are slowly typing it one key at a time. anyone can do that. being a real hacker takes SKILL, and that is why i heavily admire hackers.
at school, i am an honourary member of the programming club. whenever anything bad happens on the school computers, then we are the ones who always get blamed for it. the teacher who supervises our meetings is probably the only one ion the school who believes us when we say that it isn't us. the school admin have heavily restricted access to the school computers, and this is something which i don't like. we have an internet filter provided by the state department of education and training, which is now a WHITELIST this means that they have blocked access to all sites, and then MANUALLY unblock the sites that they think we should have access to. now, i partially understand them, however i think they have gone too far with this. i mean, what's the point of being able to go into google if you cannot access any of the websites that come up as search results? it is horrible! we are forced to use cached versions of websites to even be able to view them! and also trap17, and therefore my website, are blocked @
now to the actual school computers. we have a 'student terminal server', which we are required to log in to if we want to use programs like word, photoshop etc. the only problem is, the server is so laggy that it takes photoshop (7.01, by the way ) an hour to start up! the only things you can use without logging on are internet explorer, notepad and wmp (windows media player). that's basically it.
you're not really meant to access your usb without logging on, however we at programming club found out that right clicking on the start menu -> explore works! we can access all those folders
around a week ago, they disabled this as well! luckily though, my usb is u3, so i can access it at any time via the u3 launchpad icon in the taskbar.
however, i dont like these restrictions, and i dont like the student terminal server. AND i dont like the proxy filter of the det.
so, my question is: taking in mind all of these restrictions which have been imposed on us, do you think it is ethical if:
a) we at programming club installed dev c++ (our favourite c++ coding program), because all the school offered was an extremely outdated version of visual c++, which i HATE anyway, and we have to use it from the student terminal server, on where we dont have to log on (where we cant explore the start menu now, ie where you are when you turn on the computer, before you log on), and did this on all of the school computers, so that we could use dev c++, a good program, and not lagging on the student terminal server, and; we have a great urge to hack both the school admin account, to reinstate some of our computer privileges, or even better to create our own little admin account for discreet use, however we will not misuse this (we would use this for example installing dev c++, textpad, updated photoshop and other programs which are necessities for us). also, to find a way around the proxy filter, because it is really killing our internet usage
do you think these things are morally correct to do?"
No I do not think you should do this. This to me is considered as "hacking" and if the school finds out you are in big trouble, you can be punished very heavily..
Notice from jlhaslip:
added quote tags. There is no need to quote this posting since it is right above your reply in the same thread. Saves bandwidth for the dial-up users.
I agree completly hacking is illegal and noone should commit it. But trough hacking and in fact if you are searching for bugs and errors in programs is sometimes and most of time the best way to learn about computer security operating systems security and today probably most important web sites security as currently there are so many web sites being hacked. And big problems is open source projects that is open source projects ar enot problematic by itself but if in any case you find bug in them it means you are aable to to break any system that uses such system as either their main frame or as some sort of sub system and in case they havent change the part of prgoram where bug in fact lies.
I agree with you when you're saying you admire hackers, bthaxor not for the things they do, but for the skills they have. I would lov to be so tallented, and have the knowledge about IT they have. I think it's a kind of gift, but you have to use it for the greater good, like you at your school. it's really annoying you have computers but you can't do anything with them. As long as you don't do anything shady or dangerous (like excessive downloading, or surfing for porn) you should have rather free access on the web. I do understand why your school is blocking so much content, but they've made it kind of useless to have internet if you can't even do a decent research on it...
so in this special case (and when you don't do anything bad to them) I think I would allow you to hack their accounts. and remove some restrictions. But I wouldn't recommend doing it, because if they catch you, the cost could be huge! what is the use of a computer if you can't even use your explorer...
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Jul 25, 2008
this means that they have blocked access to all sites, and then MANUALLY unblock the sites that they think we should have access to. now, i partially understand them, however i think they have gone too far with this. i mean, what's the point of being able to go into google if you cannot access any of the websites that come up as search results? it is horrible! we are forced to use cached versions of websites to even be able to view them! and also trap17, and therefore my website, are blocked @
we have a great urge to hack both the school admin account, to reinstate some of our computer privileges, or even better to create our own little admin account for discreet use, however we will not misuse this (we would use this for example installing dev c++, textpad, updated photoshop and other programs which are necessities for us). also, to find a way around the proxy filter, because it is really killing our internet usage 
