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Space Travel

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Read Latest Entries..: (Post #19) by hitmanblood on Apr 24 2007, 03:37 PM.
Well of course I agree with the space travel and we will be able to do it sooner then anyone else expects because space has become commercial in the last several years and more and more tourists are going to the space to the ISS(international space station). So when something develops as commercial activity in our world it starts developing really fast.I know that few American companies are working on the development of the space craft which could take people in the space like space shuttle for ...
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Space Travel

tractor
I think we will be able to live in space soon.

I saw a documentary about it. This one company has invested all there money into space travel. And what there doing is accualy building a space hotel right now.

It will go into space like a satalite but has small thrusters on it to keep it stable.

Now what I think is somehow we will be able to make a huge engine that burns on water, air, dirt, or something like that. My idea is to make the heat in this engine so hot that anything will burn in it. With this we will be able to look into planets beyond our solar system. And see maybe go into a black hole and get into another dimension.

The purpose of this is to be able to live on other planets. Travel to places unheard of right now. And look into the future of the humans.

By this time the ships will most likely be able to drive them selfs. So all we have to do is sit back and relax.

It sounds great but many things could go wrong. Like over heating. Pressure systems. And allot of other things.

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Plenoptic
Well, for one people have already lived in space in the Space Station. That's the start of it and it'll get bigger from there. The shuttle that launched yesterday went up there to set up air conditioning and stuff like that. As for viewing other planets outside our solar system, that is already being done with the technology we have, we just haven't gone out there to visit them. But we know what they are made out of and they are looking for planets more like Earth to see which planets can support life.

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Saint_Michael
Financially it will be impossible to, like you mention tractor people are spending millions or even billions just to get to fly into outer space or some cases were gravity no longer exsist in the earth atmosphere.

Of course makes you think their won't be problems on the moon, heck the biggest terrorist threat someone could pull is, damage the the gravity system, air supply or the plastic bubble that would surround the moon colonies.

Of course once we figure out how to make thinks a hell of lot cheaper then they are now then maybe the financial problems will go away. Again the crime that could happen is immeasurable.

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matak
Maybe it is not going to be finanially possible but people who are going to work on space program should work on it for free. The reward is going to be the option for those people who help space travel to be able to go to space when they want to.

Now, about engines. For our galaxy we should build "solar sail" spacecrafts that use "solar wind" that's speed is about 500 km/sec. I think that is pretty fast for space dimensions. After such a space craft exceedes suns solar wind that spreads to the end and even a bit more of our galaxy it should ignite engines that it would be using.

Only problem i see in all of this is psyche of those astronauts that would be in these ships. It would be probably the longest travel human race has ever made so people might easily go crazy on such a travels. But that is something they need to be trained to...

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salamangkero
QUOTE(matak @ Dec 11 2006, 08:45 PM) *
Now, about engines. For our galaxy we should build "solar sail" spacecrafts that use "solar wind" that's speed is about 500 km/sec. I think that is pretty fast for space dimensions. After such a space craft exceeds suns solar wind that spreads to the end and even a bit more of our galaxy it should ignite engines that it would be using.


Finally! An inter-stellar propulsion/impulsion system that does not rely on the warp drive that seems to be the shallow talk of the town nowadays. Nothing like the basics happy.gif

I think Solar Sails could only do so much, I guess, while we're "near" the sun, that is, within the Heliosphere. I've once read a fiction book on this back in high school and the main problem seemed to be objects eclipsing parts of the sail. It is very much the same as an uneven (and turbulent) wind blowing on a ship's sails. The part shrouded in shadow will exert a lesser "pull" on the craft, veering it laterally into that very direction.

I suppose, however, that the sails, once the craft exits the heliosphere, might be retracted, to be unfurled once more in the presence of another nearby star. The main problem, though, is ensuring that the craft remains moving through interstellar space. Inertia can only do so much in a medium continuously battered by turbulent winds from different stellar sources.

Even rockets can only go so far. Even assuming that we can penetrate the heliosphere of a different star, it will not be too long until we are also blown away by the same stellar winds, even assuming that we have retracted or cut off the solar sails.

We could, however, approach at an angle, very much like comets, however, I have nary an idea regarding the calculation of the entry speeds and angles to launch the craft into an orbit around the star, using gravity as a catapult to reach the inner parts of the stellar system.

The main problem I see, though, is actually entering another star's heliosphere. See, if the craft remains stuck or drifting in interstellar space, it will not be long before the ship eventually loses energy. As far as I know, interstellar space has temperatures that reach quite near absolute zero. True. we could travel to the edge of the solar system in pretty much the same way ancient mariners did, but for interstellar space, we need a propulsion/impulsion system far faster than solar sails. happy.gif

 

 

 


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bhavesh
To reach deep into space one need energy. So biggest problem is how to get an energy source which will never exhaust or will last for the entire trip and is not heavy too.

The conventional fules available on earth will not help, we need something from the space. Some members are saying about solar wind, I don't think it will help as you go away from sun or any star, it will get weakened. Then whats the alternative?

May be, I am not sure but may be the gravitational pull would come into play. When I take a look around the space the common thing I found is Gravitational force, its present everywhere. So we need a device which will use these gravitaional force to propel itself, but how, again I dont know. And I am not confident either of what I have proposed.

But I know one thing that all this things are just wastage of brain, money, people. There are a lot of sufferings in this world and if all brains work together to eliminate, then in no time it will be eliminated and this earth will be the best place to live in. And we will not require to find another earth.

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tractor
We can also use some type of gravitation pull from planets like they do with satilites. So we use no power.

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osknockout
QUOTE
We can also use some type of gravitation pull from planets like they do with satilites. So we use no power.
Oy, that's only practical when using the gravity of large planets - e.g. using the gravity of Jupiter to swing out to the outer rims of the solar system. And it's already used for moving current satellites in space, so that option's eliminated. biggrin.gif

Hmm, and solar sails are still experimental I think, despite what NASA says about trying to pull off a solar sail a few years from now. Using power from photons... you'll need quite a few googols of them to counteract motion of flying debris and such to get it started... I don't know, seems kinda hard to pull off to me. And I think the periodic proton bursts from the sun would harm the sail. I think you need to find some material that is light, can absorb as much interstellar radiation as possible, and can withstand flying debris going at large percentages of the speed of light and ion shocks. ... seems kind of expensive to me still.

But hey, interesting ideas. smile.gif

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Saint_Michael
Problem with solar sails is that if you damage enough of the them and repair them then your supplies are gone for that so you will be strand with no way to get back.

Gravity is a tricky business, remember the stats they give on our planets are assumptions. They could be accurate but it's all about the timing and precise calculations for that to work. Also they would have to stop by each planet and then for a couple of days rotate around it to gain the sling shot speed that they would need in order to the leave orbit.

Well the next step would to go nuclear engine, that will get rid of the fuel problem, nuclear cells do lats a very long time, only problem would be radiation leaks and what not.

Of course the biggest problem is motion, it is not so easy to stop a ship going 17,000 MPH. Of course I don't think the urrent engines on the space shuttle could handle a reverse like that..

Let see it took about what 4-5 days for the apollo craft to get ot the moon, with the current space shuttle, I would say at least 2 days are knock off just because of the bigger thrust the engine has. Now with the new Orion space craft coming out for the new era of NASA that could trim it down another day or a few hours at the most.

I think they mention that it would take like what 4--6 months to reach Mars. The isolation will get anyone like that especially in the emptiness of space. How I think, instead of one crew on the shuttle you build the shuttle to hold 2 4 man crews. Then do shifts got one crew maintain operations while the other sleeps. That way the lack of sleep won't be a problem.

Of course then their is SPACE MADNESS!! ohmy.gif

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matak
Well that problem with sails is beacouse they take them to be like sails in ships. But why would they need to be like that. Basicly all we need to is to build a large ship that looks like cube or something, and then direct it in the way of wind smile.gif

Beacouse the space is empty there is no need for the ship to be aerodinamic or hydrodynamic, beacouse there is no resistance at all. They are trying to build sails but they dont need to sail on anything they just need to find a way to disturb suns wind energy in moving of something with MASS. That is why i think solar sailing is maybe suitable for small and light ships beacouse the wind it self is not powerfull enough to move anything with mass beacouse mass isn't something that could be in equation of solar wind. Or something like that. But that is just my personal opinion i don't have enough of a brain to understand all of the math needed for those calculations smile.gif

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hitmanblood
Well of course I agree with the space travel and we will be able to do it sooner then anyone else expects because space has become commercial in the last several years and more and more tourists are going to the space to the ISS(international space station). So when something develops as commercial activity in our world it starts developing really fast.

I know that few American companies are working on the development of the space craft which could take people in the space like space shuttle for few hours and that would include no gravity environment and special look on the earth. However it won't be available to the general public but rather to the higher paid people. Approximate pricing they suggested is around some 5000 till 10,000 dollars flight so it might be nice wedding or so and such things or one time life experience. But the point is when we start develiping something into commercial sector it tends to develop itself and starts funding it self this is only reason why space will become so popular in the next ten till twenty years. We could have develop technology in the 70's but there was no profit and interest and till the beginning of the XXI's century space was mostly funded trough state funding in every country so to say.

This thing has changed since that time every year russian space agency sends few tourists to the space station and so on. So the thing is that this sector is now developing and soon enough when more and more people see space as tourist destination we will develop the technology and even conquer moon once more. And probably start utilizing it with some other things also maybe for harvesting solar power energy and minerals extraction which chine has in plan already and is saying that in next 20 or so years will be able to develop refining stations on the moon and that it will transport minerals all the way to the earth with profitable costs. Which would increase with increase in extraction.

Because it is easier to travel from the moon to the earth then from the earth towards moon. As moon gravitation is some 6 time lower then earths and that's why you need less power to leave the moon surface then you need to leave earth other thing is that earth has atmosphere, which slowers the space ship and space ship has to have more protection if it intends to leave earth.

OK and now few my futuristic views how will space travel work. Firstly we will develop technology to build fast and safe in the space and we will see increase in the space stations of very different kind tourism research medical then mineral processing and so on. We will conquer the moon surface and moon underground firstly we will use nuclear energy then we will jump to the sun powered power plants and then mineral extraction will begin from moons surface. Because of the constant damage to the sun's powered powerplants we will develop shielding technology which will protect the moon from the asteroids and so on every space body which might infect or destroy artificial buildings on the moon. Also we will start reaching in the other parts of the sun's system. Firstly there is Mars space station then actual buildings and population will start growing on the mars. However after while we will reach europe sattelite. And then we will start researching different ways of propulsion which would shorten the traveeling time. We are doing some experiments with solar wind and so on. After while we will conquer most of our system and generation space ships will start leaving earth and other outposts to reach otehr systems and to colonize them. Our new propulsion has made sun's system traveling local thing however reaching other far away planets is still generation buisness. A lot of new developed corporations has been developed and so on. So you see we have new way of propulsion. We are developing some sort of gates which will bring us to the other systems however other systems still have to be reached out by generation star ships.

After a while human race is getting over several star systems. And all have star gates trough which we can almost instantly enter other system. They work on bending space and time so to make this travelling almost instantenious although in fact it is not. Everything stops around smile.gif while they travel. However we don't have still technology to implement this technology to the space ships nor we are able to make good navigational usage if installed in our high tech space ships.

I would like to see others opinion on this and I would like that everyone could add something to this. However please don't just add like we encounter superior intelligence and then they assimilate all of us biggrin.gif.

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SNiped
I think going into space would be the ultimate experience but spending a week floating around really does not float my boat. I am clumsy as it is floating would not really help that cause. I agree with Saint Michael on the 2 4 man crew's but the amount of supplies needed for that long of journey with that many men would be outrageous.

I think the only feasable way to travel to mars would be to put liek truck stops in space with stocked up food then you move up to the next station on your journey. It's hard to explain if you need more explanation just ask.

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bk2070
I do too just not anytime soon, First the world needs to be at an end then to start thinking about living on the moon. First lets make a machine that allows the whole atmospehre able for us to breath, then there may be a way, but with the constant meteors in the moon that would be a prnlem and not gravity is a bproblem as well so maybe in 100s of years, but not anytime soon!!! smile.gif

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salamangkero
QUOTE(Teri Luketic @ Jan 10 2007, 12:16 AM) *
In terms of the sails, would someone like to explain how space can be looked at like an ocean if you are surrounded by space, not having one substance you're floating on and another above you? Sails have to do with wind, if you're going to be pushed by whatever you are talking about with this space winds, you are surrounded by them they aren't just going to attack the sails right?


While it is true that space is mostly empty, our local space, that is, within the neighborhood of the solar system, is not exactly as empty as the vacuum people think it is. As a matter of fact, our local space is just something extremely thinner than air. Very light but hardly empty at all. The particles comprising this "air" are mostly from the sun. The sun, our own local star, continuously "shoots" out millions of these particles. The reason we (or the planets) don't get blown away is because the planets are dense enough to withstand this constant bombardment and that the sun has sufficient gravitational pull to keep them in place. Fact is that Mercury and, it is also thought, Mars have had their atmosphere blown off by the solar wind. The Venusian atmosphere too has been discovered to be slowly eroding, like comets do when they near the sun. The reason Earth retained it's atmosphere is because of the magnetosphere shielding us from these winds.

For something less dense with a large surface area, like properly taut sails, this solar wind might be enough to carry it as far as the heliopause. For more info on this wind, see this Wikipedia entry.

QUOTE(Teri Luketic @ Jan 10 2007, 12:16 AM) *
Then I'm brought to another question. I could just ask my friend, but that seems to be something we talk about a lot already, and I'm trying to branch conversations into other realms of communication. When he's talking about traveling and time, he ends up saying things about time being slower for those actually traveling, and those "watching" not even seeing them and all. But when the ship or whatever would return from their voyage, they may still be whatever age they should be to them, while their friends and loved ones could have aged many years and/or even died in the time they should have in their time. Anyone have any idea what he's going on about there? How would one fix that problem even, past taking everyone with you. . .which is a massive amount of people when you think about how people are all connected and all?


It is a phenomenon known as Time Dilation, where, simply put, the faster an object moves through space, the slower it's own "clock" ticks. It's is not hypothetical; it's quite real. For example, we have a lot of particles in the universe that, within split-nanoseconds, decay into other particles, equally swift in their decay. However, sensors at ground level pick up these particles from cosmic showers with relative ease. The reason is that these particles travel through space at speeds near that of light. Time Dilation slows down time for them such that, in our point of view, instead of decaying quickly, the decay process is slowed down. Note, however, that in the point of view of the particle, it is just decaying at the normal, quick rate.

It can't be solved, really. Separation and death is something we often gamble on whenever we travel. Workers sent overseas run the risk of losing contact with their families. Sometimes, natural calamities finish off some of our relatives on the other side of the globe. I don't think Time Dilation is something that needs to be "fixed". If I were to travel to Proxima Centauri, take a few snapshots of extraterrestrial scenery and a few shots of extraterrestrial liquor, then return, I could hardly expect you guys to still be alive and cheering for me happy.gif

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Teri Luketic
QUOTE(Plenoptic @ Dec 11 2006, 06:02 AM) *

As for viewing other planets outside our solar system, that is already being done with the technology we have, we just haven't gone out there to visit them. But we know what they are made out of and they are looking for planets more like Earth to see which planets can support life.


Which is the point being made. I do have to say, it is pretty neat to know what these things are mad of and all, but I would love to be able to visit these places myself (somehow, even those that we would not be able to live on with out specific altercations to the facilities we would live in without breathing toxic whatevers).

QUOTE(Saint_Michael @ Dec 11 2006, 06:58 AM) *

Financially it will be impossible to, like you mention tractor people are spending millions or even billions just to get to fly into outer space or some cases were gravity no longer exsist in the earth atmosphere.

Of course makes you think their won't be problems on the moon, heck the biggest terrorist threat someone could pull is, damage the the gravity system, air supply or the plastic bubble that would surround the moon colonies.

Of course once we figure out how to make thinks a hell of lot cheaper then they are now then maybe the financial problems will go away. Again the crime that could happen is immeasurable.


You know, the whole crime thing is something I do not think a lot of people actually look at. Sure, things like Star Trek and whatever other shows out there have such things in them, but that is not a topic you hear a lot about. But would not that be what security and military people would be for. Have enough up there to assure that something would not go wrong, and if it did that's what the smart people who know how to run the thing would be there for. You have people who can maintain and keep the thing going. One would hope they would be smart enough to fix something a terrorist could come up with.

If you want to worry about terrorist type actions though, we have that down here, and they are just as bad, look at 911.

QUOTE(salamangkero @ Dec 11 2006, 11:57 AM) *

Finally! An inter-stellar propulsion/impulsion system that does not rely on the warp drive that seems to be the shallow talk of the town nowadays. Nothing like the basics happy.gif

I think Solar Sails could only do so much, I guess, while we're "near" the sun, that is, within the Heliosphere. I've once read a fiction book on this back in high school and the main problem seemed to be objects eclipsing parts of the sail. It is very much the same as an uneven (and turbulent) wind blowing on a ship's sails. The part shrouded in shadow will exert a lesser "pull" on the craft, veering it laterally into that very direction.

I suppose, however, that the sails, once the craft exits the heliosphere, might be retracted, to be unfurled once more in the presence of another nearby star. The main problem, though, is ensuring that the craft remains moving through interstellar space. Inertia can only do so much in a medium continuously battered by turbulent winds from different stellar sources.

. . .

The main problem I see, though, is actually entering another star's heliosphere. See, if the craft remains stuck or drifting in interstellar space, it will not be long before the ship eventually loses energy. As far as I know, interstellar space has temperatures that reach quite near absolute zero. True. we could travel to the edge of the solar system in pretty much the same way ancient mariners did, but for interstellar space, we need a propulsion/impulsion system far faster than solar sails. happy.gif


I have a friend talking about different propulsion ideas for space travel. One thing he'd come up with was that of some kind of "beam" that could be set up to sent a vessel with enough equipment to make a structure like the first wherever they were sent from to send them back, and to another planet as well. I'm not the technical brain on this though, so perhaps you could all hash out what he's talking about.

In terms of the sails, would someone like to explain how space can be looked at like an ocean if you are surrounded by space, not having one substance you're floating on and another above you? Sails have to do with wind, if you're going to be pushed by whatever you are talking about with this space winds, you are surrounded by them they aren't just going to attack the sails right?

While I've grown up with the idea of warp drive, I have to agree with doing something basic. What exactly is it we are using now though with the shuttles and such. Isn't it just fuel? Perhaps something basic is what's needed. Then again, those have probably already been tested. There's obviously something else out there. . .on this world. . .that could be used for better space travel. More distance in shorter periods of time.

Then I'm brought to another question. I could just ask my friend, but that seems to be something we talk about a lot already, and I'm trying to branch conversations into other realms of communication. When he's talking about traveling and time, he ends up saying things about time being slower for those actually traveling, and those "watching" not even seeing them and all. But when the ship or whatever would return from their voyage, they may still be whatever age they should be to them, while their friends and loved ones could have aged many years and/or even died in the time they should have in their time. Anyone have any idea what he's going on about there? How would one fix that problem even, past taking everyone with you. . .which is a massive amount of people when you think about how people are all connected and all?

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