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QUOTE(omarsdali @ Nov 28 2007, 03:40 PM)  first of all, this is not my proof nor my theory, I just translated the proof, although I do beleive that god exists. god is not energy he is the creator of the energy. He created the energy from nothing. and he is not the 'power', he has that power. The power of creating things from nothing. The creator has the power of creating things from nothing, because he has that power he doesn't need another being to bring him into existance, because if he is in need of another being to bring him into existance then he can't have the power because he needs it himself. If we say that god is the original energy, then we are back to the same question which we were trying to answer which is "Where did that original energy come from?" no, but because the energy and the matter and everything was created that means it has a begining and since everything that has a begining must have an end, when its end comes that will be judgement day. It depends on what you are referring to when you say judgement day I guess. I am mentioning an answer to the question: "If energy cannot be created or destroyed, where did all the energy that exists in the universe today come from ?" and if this answer is wrong then give us a better answer or try to correct this answer. I believe, god is to this universe, as we are to our parents. In other words. God created everything that is, everything that we know of, and an infinite number of things we may never know. I also believe, that as we progress from this life, into the next life, as God's Children, we will be able to inherit his work. If we are indeed created in his image, then it bears reckoning that as children grow up to be productive members of society, we will grow up when we die to become partners with our Heavenly Father. I also believe that Heavenly Father, lived on a planet in another universe. I believe that he had a Father in Heaven, as well, our Grand-Heavenly Father, and that this could continue on for an infinite amount of generations.
Islamic creation backs up the Big bang, and this theory that "the universe is created from nothing" has lead some scientists to think that there was a greater power. The Qur'an also mentions other scientific theories that closely resemble or are compatible with modern-day theories; such as embryology and the mountains.
All this from a book 1400 years ago, revealed to an illiterate man. There were no universities or professors or the advanced technology we have today. This proves the divine authority of the Qur'an, meaning that a single monotheistic God must exist and that there is a Judgment Day; because both these topics (Monotheism and Qiyammah aka Day of Resurrection) are the most frequently mentioned topics of The Qur'an.
If you read the Bhagavadgita, It explains the entire evolution through concepts of spirituality. Reading that, theory of BigBang is meaningless. It talks mainly about CONSCIENCE and the level of conscience every living thing has. Of all, Humans are at the highest level because we are gifted with INTELLIGENCE and the power to discriminate.
First we look at the fact about how old this literature is: QUOTE "The Bhagavadgita was written about 150 B.C. by a devotee of another Indian deity, Krishna, whose popularity would spread throughout India. It was meant to be included in the Mahabharata by a Krishna bhakta, in order to show that devotion to Krishna was the key to an understanding of the Vedic religion." The Main Concept. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita) QUOTE The Gita addresses the discord between the senses and the intuition of cosmic order. It speaks of the Yoga of equanimity, a detached outlook. The term Yoga covers a wide range of meanings, but in the context of the Bhagavad Gita, describes a unified outlook, serenity of mind, skill in action and the ability to stay attuned to the glory of the Self (Atman) and the Supreme Being (Bhagavan). According to Krishna, the root of all suffering and discord is the agitation of the mind caused by selfish desire. The only way to douse the flame of desire is by simultaneously stilling the mind through self-discipline and engaging oneself in a higher form of activity. However, abstinence from action is regarded as being just as detrimental as extreme indulgence. According to the Bhagavad Gita, the goal of life is to free the mind and intellect from their complexities and to focus them on the glory of the Self by dedicating one's actions to the divine. This goal can be achieved through the Yogas of meditation, action, devotion and knowledge. In the sixth chapter, Krishna describes the best Yogi as one who constantly meditates upon him[22]- which is understood to mean thinking of either Krishna personally, or the supreme Brahman - with different schools of Hindu thought giving varying points of view. Krishna summarizes the Yogas through eighteen chapters. Three yogas in particular have been emphasized by commenters: * Bhakti Yoga or Devotion, * Karma Yoga or Selfless Action * Jnana Yoga or Self Transcending Knowledge While each path differs, their fundamental goal is the same - to realize Brahman (the Divine Essence) as being the ultimate truth upon which our material universe rests, that the body is temporal, and that the Supreme Soul (Paramatman) is infinite. Yoga's aim (moksha) is to escape from the cycle of reincarnation through realization of the ultimate reality. There are three stages to self-realization enunciated from the Bhagavad Gita: 1. Brahman - The impersonal universal energy 2. Paramatma - The Supreme Soul sitting in the heart of every living entity. 3. Bhagavan - God as a personality, with a transcendental form. COMING to the OLDEST LITERATURE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas QUOTE The Vedas are arguably the oldest sacred texts that are still used. Most Indologists agree that an oral tradition existed long before a literary tradition gradually sets in from about the 2nd century BCE.[12] Due to the ephemeral nature of the manuscript material (birch bark or palm leaves), surviving manuscripts rarely surpass an age of a few hundred years. The oldest surviving manuscripts of the Rigveda are dated to the 11th century. The Vedic period lasts for at least a millennium, spanning the Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age. Gavin Flood1996 (, p. 37) sums up mainstream estimates, according to which the Rigveda was composed from as early as 1500 BCE over a period of several centuries. The Vedic period reaches its peak only after the composition of the mantra texts, with the establishment of the various shakhas all over Northern India which annotated the mantra samhitas with Brahmana commentaries, and reaches its end in the age of Buddha and Panini and the rise of the Mahajanapadas (archaeologically, Northern Black Polished Ware). Michael Witzel gives a time span of c. 1500 BCE to c. 500-400 BCE. Witzel makes special reference to the Mitanni material of ca. 1400 BCE is the only epigraphic record of Indo-Aryan that may date to the Rigvedic period, admitting this does still not allow for an absolute dating of any Vedic text. He gives 150 BCE (Patanjali) as a terminus ante quem for all Vedic Sanskrit literature, and 1200 BCE (the early Iron Age) as terminus post quem for the Atharvaveda.
It really is a debatable topic. One that I've wondered myself, but I dont believe in God. I believe were controll our own destiny, lifes and our fate. Its not all decided but a figure we can not see, or have no 'Hard Fact' they exist. Yes their is Bibles, etc, but a book, espeically one so hard to read, cant prove anything.
Well thats my opinion.. a little off topic, but not by much 
QUOTE It really is a debatable topic. One that I've wondered myself, but I dont believe in God. I believe were controll our own destiny, lifes and our fate. Its not all decided but a figure we can not see, or have no 'Hard Fact' they exist. Yes their is Bibles, etc, but a book, espeically one so hard to read, cant prove anything. If a god exists, it doesn't automatically mean that we don't control our destiny, and our lives and our fate. We can still have free will and have a god exists at the same time. There is no conflict there.Well thats my opinion.. a little off topic, but not by much biggrin.gif QUOTE Its not all decided but a figure we can not see, Although we can't see it, we can see it's creations, it's traces... QUOTE Yes their is Bibles, etc, but a book, espeically one so hard to read, cant prove anything. We never tried to prove anything using the bible, we are trying to use science to prove that god exists, no one said anything about the bible. QUOTE(Evolke @ Jan 24 2008, 09:17 AM) It really is a debatable topic. One that I've wondered myself, but I dont believe in God. I believe were controll our own destiny, lifes and our fate. Its not all decided but a figure we can not see, or have no 'Hard Fact' they exist. Yes their is Bibles, etc, but a book, espeically one so hard to read, cant prove anything. Well thats my opinion.. a little off topic, but not by much Bhagavadgita says, In the end, there is no such thing as God or Satan. There is neither Good Or bad. There is just one (Conscience). And you are me and I am you.  You do not have to search for God. You have to start the journey from inside within you. Once you reach the end i.e. when you meet your conscience, you discover yourself as God.
As has been pointed out, the biggest flaw with this "theory" is that it assumes that everything must have come from SOMETHING. It goes onto assume that a God must have created everything. But then one must consider: from whence did the God spawn? From whence did that which God spawned from spawn?
The idea that a thing must have a beginning is thus refuted. One is then inclined to bring up that it has pretty much been proved that the Big Bang happened, and that all matter and energy as we know it exploded from a single, infinitesimal point. However this also relies on assumption, the worst one ever made: That matter/energy are separate entities from space. Honestly, in something that we call the uni- verse, how can we POSSIBLY think that there is more than one kind of "stuff"? How is it not immediately obvious that all "stuffs" in the universe are actually different forms of the same "stuff"? Einstein has made the claim E=mc^2, which is widely accepted as true. This effectively states that mass is a form of energy. Einstein's theories of relativity also states that space is a physical, warping thing...if all that reacts to the bending of space is considered different forms of the same thing, while each having their own sets of reactions, the theoretical path leads from there to the conclusion that Space = Energy = Mass=Stuff. And before somebody uses the argument that we each seem to have a personal consciousness, I must point out that it isn't entirely impossible for there to be a "biotic" form of energy. It certainly makes sense that living things would have their own unique energy, given their apparently erratic behaviour. The idea that there could be a sort of "life energy" allows the concept that we each are indeed physical beings, yet with our own separate consciousnesses; while still supporting the claim that everything is made of a universal, neutral "stuff".
Since the translation directly asks atheists to take a bite at that, I am an atheist so I will take at shot at this huge theory the just tumbled my world
 Theories Argument... where does all the energy we see today comes from? if energy cannot be created nor destroyed where did it came from? assumed logic... there is a flaw in the law and all energy was at one point introduced (created) by a greater being or thing. The assumption made... this thing that started energy is god... and since he/she created energy... he must be able to destroy it (presumed by article to be Judgment Day). Ther you have it religion is correct.. in your face atheists. Mockery Response... the law of conservation of energy/matter states thet energy/matter cannot be created nor destroyed, it can only change form or phases... since energy/matter cannot be created then the creator, god, in fact is not a spontaneous creator but rather a source... therefore it has changed form and turned into energy and matter as we know it today... resolution....... I AM GOD. Real Response To say that we know that something at one point created energy is wrong because we do not know that... it is only an assumption made by the finite way of thinking of us human beings. We tend to want to limit things, we want a beginning and an end to it. and the things that do not have an end to it we place an icon for it... example numbers... they do not have a beginning nor an end... but we have placed an icon for both the "beginning" (minus infinity) and the "end" (infinity). We can stretch this idea and assume that god is just the icon created to satisfy the need to have a beginning and an end... swallow that Arab dude who's name is not mentioned in the quoting...
Haha... there will never be hard, tangible proof of a God or the absence of a God that will appease anyone.
 I will first state that I am agnostic, maybe even atheist, so that every other religious poster can see my words here as biased and full of error.  I did, however, just read a really cool (and VERY dry) reading on the thoughts of Aquinas. In his writings, he establishes proof of a God by the process of induction, but one of the greatest arguments that I thought he had to prove the existence of God was that: we (as believers) have a clear and distinct idea of God; that the idea itself must have a cause; that this cause must be as real in cause as it is as an idea; that this idea of God can only come from God; and therefore, God exists. What I found funny is that with those statements, just saying that "God doesn't exist" proves God's existence, because then you would have to have the idea of God to deny God's existence. This, of course, raises the question from non-believers and naysayers: how is it that people could not have just conjured the idea of God? We've conjured up the idea of unicorns and fairies and aliens and dragons... why not God too? (Of course, that's my stance too.) I don't know if there is an answer to that, but in a way, it kind of makes sense. If we were just human beings, how was it that we even came up with the idea of God... possibly to give some sort of an answer to our existence? Couldn't we have just made everything up? Then again, what if God gave us our ideas and we are just realizing them over a span of time? Descartes takes an opposite approach to the existence of God, and I thought this interesting also. In his writings on Meditations of Philosophy, he mentions the principle of adequate reality, which simply states that something created cannot be better than the entity that created it. (We as humans can never create a better human being, ontologically-speaking. And no, robots do not count. Cloning creates an equal, but not a better being.) In this sense of the principle, there had to have been something that created us as human beings. That something would be God. Descartes also proves, in principle, that there is only one God. If God is perfect, that means that there can't be multiple perfect gods, or else they would be comparable to each other. A short, simple, and sweet explanation. (If God ISN'T perfect or absolute or all-encompassing or all-powerful, then there must be something bigger, larger, faster, better than God...)Of course, more naysay comes up with the question: So who, or what, created God? God couldn't have just come out of nowhere, would it? Then again, God is perfect, all-encompassing, absolute... - So if you are religious, or even if you are one of the naysayers like myself, I suggest you take up a college course in philosophy, or take a look at the philosophical views of Aquinas or Descartes... or any other philosopher that may have a stand on the existence of a greater power. It will at the very least stir up some good discussion instead of the usual "God just is" statements.
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 Scientific Proof That God And The Day Of Judgement Both Exist |
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