Even Hilary agreed that pulling out right now would be retarded. That's right. One of your fellow liberals. Now stop whining.

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I've read somewhere in last weeks newspaper that the USA are considering to lower the american presence in Iraq with more then 70%. If you ask me that is at least far-fetched since withdrawing from Iraq before peace is restored would make USA look weak to the rest of the world. It would be Vietnam all over again...

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I don't think she said anything about anybody being retarded. She is half-republican anyway. I wouldn't vote for her - and I am 100% liberal. Who is whining? I am outraged - and it is called frustration, not whining.

I am outraged by the useless killing. Get out of Iraq! Stop the war on error!

As for the side-effects of us leaving... I believe that adriantc is missing the big picture. I think that it is much worse for us to look like Nazis than for us to look weak. Who really cares if we look a little bit weak. Anybody else see it this way? We are taking plays directly out of Goebel's playbook from the 1938 run up to WWII. "This is a war that was forced upon us", "This is brought on by the actions of the jews in Poland". Basically, if a leader calls a potential enemy enough names and makes up enough *BLEEP*, then the people will follow - especially if they believe that their life was threatened by this enemy.... (that is what the terror alert level chart was for).

Pros for withdrawing

• We can't afford this ongoing war. Remember what happened to Russia - fighting Afghanistan? The war nearly bankrupted the entire country.
• Peace - sooner than later. The extremist islamists would have a very hard time recruiting new fighters against a benevolent America. That is a lesson that you never would hear from the administration, but it is true.... they'd literally put down their weapons against us if we stopped our conquest and our gluttonous ways.
• Terrorist that continue to attack us would have less support in the future if the attacked us (since we would be leaving them alone - which is really all that they want)
• We would be viewed as wiser, not weaker - respected more not less around the world
• UN would be able to get some real work done - like the Kyoto CO2 protocol, the stuff in Africa and middle-east)
• Arabs of the future would view the new America as a benevolent one (if we could actually follow through)

Cons for withdrawing

• USA looks a bit weaker than it is (another way of saying that we don't look like an international bully anymore)
• USA would have very little control over the world's oil (I actually consider this a Pro, but I list it here because the administration would certainly view this as a Con)

I think that we are a very bad country. We are a pathetic country that is strong. If we were a cartoon character maybe we'd be Strong-Stupid (is that one of the UhGi Oh's?). Based on another recent incident in the news, our leaders want to control the newspapers - kind of like the Soviet Union, eh? Take this freedom away and I think that we'd have a revolution - not only from the locals here in USA, but the whole world would begin to treat us like the country that we ARE.

Bad intelligence. That is what I am going to call Bush for the rest of my life -- George "Bad Intelligence" Bush.

 

 

 

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"What is paraphrasing?" I'll take other common sense somebody will overlook for 500, Alex.

You're just hopping on the liberal bandwagon. If we were there for oil, wouldn't gas prices be a bit lower? Controll newspapers? Nobody needs to know how we're protected. If you want information falling into the wrong hands, feel free.

All in all, without liberal douchebags whining, things would've gone smoother. Without having to be politically correct every five seconds, we smashed down Japan and the Axis powers. Back then, we could have anti-japanese propoganda, drop Fat man and Little boy, and worry about the rest later. I could honestly care if a liberal douche bag newspaper like the New York Times gets in trouble for reporting stuff they shouldn't be that risks our nationa's security. Revolution? Hardly. People will just whine about it as they have been doing. Go watch Al Gore's movie about Global Warming if you like exaggeration so much.

We can't just pull out. Their country would go to hell. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. This is just a prime example of the liberal bandwagoning that's been going on.



There's an old Usenet saying that dictates anybody comparing another thing to Hitler or the Nazi regime has pretty much already lost an argument.



This is really the lol part. Ignore the fact innocent Iraqis have been killed by Al Queda in Iraq and the fact we've helped them get running water and electricity for political leverage. Once they can hold up, forces leave. Get over it.

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Douchebag? How objective. Name calling is really mature. I know - I know - I called Bush a real nimrod, but he did say to the Iraqi resistance "bring it on!" and that certainly qualifies as a nimrod statement if there ever was one.

Kioku, fellow human, I really have to disagree with you - and say that I believe that you have a very closed-mind. First of all, liberal is not a bad word. The fact that we're in Iraq has nothing to do with getting running water or electricity to the citizens (which we're doing a pretty poor job - from what I have read - Baghdad has less water and electricity now than they did under Saddam). The mission was for WMD. They aren't there - we've declared "Mission Accomplished" - so leave! No WMD (well, there were some chemical shells leftover from who knows how long ago), so leave.

The problem is that now we've got to repair the literally broken the infrastructure in Iraq as well as keep fighting the butt-load of terrorist types (anti-american freedom fighters) that we attracted to the area.

I haven't ignored the fact that innocent Iraqis have been murdered. Today's news - 5 US soldiers are being tried for having raped and then burned an Iraqi woman to get rid of any evidence - that's only one murder... let's see -- how about the SANCTIONS that killed 500,000-800,000 innocent Iraqis?. And you call that not caring? You don't care that we'd actually do something that heartless, don't you - or you simply believe that it was all Saddam's fault - if he accepted our impossible terms, he could have saved his people. Do some research on this one and you will not want to reply on this point -- we are some ruthless sons of *BLEEP*es and I don't think that it is the right path, that's all.

Also, that release of information by the newspapers - does little to make it tougher for terrorists to operate. Many eyes are on the administration for its repeated abuses of power. This is yet another example where they decided to let the people make the decision. There is no WAR right now... we are fighting a tactic - and that will never end. Get wise... take a step back, and a deep breath and think about it.... how can we fight a tactic without killing all of the people who are sympathetic to their belief? I am afraid that it is the only way that we'd ever really win this "War".

BTW, I listened to a bit of Sean Hannity's show on Fox radio... I never heard him hang up on so many people that disagreed with him (it was all related to the recent Supreme Court ruling that Guantanamo prisoners deserve rights. Facts are facts, we captured some dangerous goat farmers - and we don't want them to have any rights). What a douchebag - just like Mr. Kioku - wave that flag of hate!

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Well I don't think I'm missing the big picture. I'm not an american so I can't understand how they really feel, but the USA today has nothing to do with the nazi. Yeah everyone sais that USA is the biggest democracy, but the in truth USA has also the most easy to control people, a bomb and some victims somewhere and they will vote for anyone that promises them revenge. So the big democracy may just be smoke and mirrors. Yeah the actions of Bush may resemble Hitler's, but we should not forget that (for the time beeing) USA rules the world... it may be cruel what I say but somehow they have the power (and thus the right) to do what they like. There is no one to stop them. It is the plain truth... It is the rule of the strongest...

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Too late. I know lots of people who call it the 2nd Vietnam war. I have no idea, but hasnt there been more protest for this war world wide then the vietnam war? I'm pretty sure. That's kinda sad actually.



haha i have to respond to this cause how you phrased it was pretty damn funny. You seem so warn out about how we liberals make so much more sence then that ummm "not so nice" president. You know i am really tired of this. You know it feels so hopeless. People tried to impeach Bill Clinton for something that had nothing to do with the goverment while George W. Bush is litteraly the most worldwide protested human EVER. More then Hitler, well because he would kill them, but still. Wait did i just compare him with Hitler. Yep.

Hey and we are going to try to invade Iran. Isn't the saying go 3's a charm. All i'm going to say is that America has pissed off A LOT of people and if we keep this up for another 2 years until the next election i truly don't think America will put up with this *BLEEP*. I think once the Americans who support the war see all the damage it has done to the USA they were demand something different. Let's be relaistic here also a war on "terror" Why dont we all have a war on jealousy as one man said. It's the same thing. It will NEVER end. Don't you morons see that at all. It will NEVER end. Please inform all of us liberal "whiners" how we will just one day be like, oh, hey, look no more terroist! Yay! Please tell me.

And to respond to someones thing about gas, the gas companies are a private company. They can set the prices to whatever they want to some extent. This is the same way with lets say pop. They could make it $4 for one can of pop. There is no stopping them. It is their product. The goverment supposedly made sure that they were not jackin up the prices, but of course in our capitalisitc goverment, they found no proof they were ripping us off. Imagin that.

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i want to thank you for posting. It really angers me when people who are ill informed as to what is really going on there say we need to bring the troops home. There are obviously a few soldiers that are not going to like being there to help. But a vast majority that I have talked to or seen are with Bush completely and understand why they are there. It really saddens me that so many people are not supportive of what has to be done there. Unfortunately I think it would take more than a few planes falling into a few buildings before the large amount of people who don't think we should be there will be convinced that we are at war. I am proud of all the soldiers and glad thaat they are fighting for me. My heart goes to all the families that have soldiers there and who have lost their loved ones. My heart goes to all the children and wives as well. May God Bless you all and may you bring freedom where it should be needed most.

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It is blind patriotism just like this that is the result of endless propaganda - since even before 9-11, that keeps us at the end of terrorists' sights. IF we were a more peaceful country (that means - minding our own business), THEN these things wouldn't happen. As long as we are making things worse in Iraq (I remind you about the degradation in infrastructure that is our fault, and the recent news about criminal behavior of American troops in Iraq), more Arabs would like to see our buildings being hit by planes. How is it that this bit of logic always seems to escape the minds of people like you.

What really saddens me is that we are basically gutting a country for what - WMD? What I am saying is that the declared mission is over - so leave! I frankly don't care that the state we'd leave Iraq in would be worse than it was when we got there - it will continue to get worse as times passes. That's the trend that you just ignore.... is it really getting better?

The soldiers that are completely on Bush's side - as you say, many of them are not educated as I have been. They are being paid large sums of money (my taxes, mind you) to kill arabs (oops... protect america). Many of them are very young and impressionable - that's all I should have to say. The mission that they are on is one that they don't fully understand. Get real. How is it that somebody over there could be objective about this mission -- of course they want to shoot the arabs! The probably have seen fellow Americans die at the hands of these "resistance fighters", even I may want to get revenge if I saw that. My point is that you can't objectively use their opinions at all -- you need wise intrepretation of all of the events, not just what Pvt. Joe Scmoe thinks.

When any educated person analyzes the whole of the situation, they come to the same conclusion - and that conclusion is not that the Iraq war is a good thing for the world... The war is wrong.

That brings me to another point I have been wanting to interject. This is not a WAR. This is more like a crack-down. Think about it - you only have wars between two countries.... here, it's the USA vs. Terrorism. Terrorism is simply a tactic or one way to fight. The "terrorists" are not from any single country - they are from all over the world. Now, even though you may be able to say that 95% of these trouble makers may be from the middle-east countries, you can not justify a war on that soil. So what if the leadership of that country did not do everything in their power to prevent these underground groups from banding together.

When could a war like this be over? Seriously ponder this question and let me know if there is an answer that doesn't involve killing all who may be sympathetic to the cause (don't get any ideas, I am not sympathetic to their cause as much as I am opposed to our course).

I hate the Republican squelch box - "the democrats want to cut and run". Well, our last "next president" John Kerry said it best - that Bush's plan to stay the course is a "Lie and die" plan. They lied (that's a fact - and you know it, why are you not outraged? is it comforting to know that we are killing under false pretenses?) and now they're (young Americans, Iraqis, including some genuine terrorists, etc.) dying.

As Kwai Chang Caine said best, "There is always another way".


I was done with my post - when I caught the last line again... religious blessings on killers? My freaking god! How hypocritical to bless killers in this manner.

Aha! This is really a holy war? Beth implies this with her salutation.... That is why this athiest doesn't care. You sheep really are great! Our book states that God said ...... while they have this other book that states that God said ....

Get real.... God is laughing his *arse* off at you. You think that God would want to bless OUR soldiers???? The soldiers from the most-gluttenous country since the great Roman empire fell? God probably really doesn't want America to win if you think about it...

Bring freedom!? Ha! Ha hahaha... hahahaha.... that is the single dumbest thing that I have heard. We are not taking freedom anywhere - except for the freedom that they are taking from American citizens --- I have no idea where that freedom goes, but you could say that it was taken from us - brought to Iraq? I don't think so. We have temporarily imprisoned major percentages of the male population in Iraq at one time or another - because they are FREE?

I am truly sorry about pissing on your cheerios.

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US War in Iraq will not finish for ages. People who said it is call it the 2nd Vietnam war they don't mean the atmosphere, the enemies or the geography. They mean that it will be wrong to continue but it is hard to withdraw. I am really sorry for each American solider killed there. No justified reason for that. Liberation of Iraq or spreading democracy in Iraq is not enough to loose teenager lives. Why then American didn't invade the Soviet Union instead of the cold war?. Why they don't go to China where the West are alleging violating of human right. Why not go to India to give people the right in Toilets?. Why they were silent when the dectator of Pakistan seizedl the authority from a domecratic elected governement. Why they were silent for the Chilian Dectator?. Why they left Kastro of Cuba for 50 years?

Shite and Kurds were welcome US because they will help them achieve their objective . A Shite government in Iraq now is like what in Iran and separate Kurdish country to the Kurd. But they will conflict with US latter. The invasion borough the terrorism there.

Al Qaeda is against Saddam Regime because the regime declare socialism its objective and because it was secular. Saddam regime had nothing to do with 9/11. But now the US Occupation brought the terrorist there. So USA will not leave for ages.

Moreover they produced government will be like that in Iran. .

The mistakes that accomplish US in Iraq are:

1. Invading Iraqi for wrong reason. that is the WMD. They didn't listen to the inspector reports. Once they don't find any they have to leave the country and the system as was.We speak about WMD in the time of invasion not about WMD programs in any time. Nobody denies that there were programs for developing them before UN Resolution that put the restriction on arms and flies zones etc... You are not there to punish them on things may be happened during the fight against Iran and Kurds because they acting as if they with Iran towards their dream of independent country as they now with US. So please don't confuse the matter.

2. Believing what Iraqis opposition said about Iraq. They who was living in mass numbers in US and UK. wrong information gathered from hate-red opposition Iraqis in US and UK.

3. Continuing the occupation even after WMD were not found. In life if Police went and search a house for drug as example and if they couldn't find any then they will not charge for finding another reason. If they charged some people and court acquitted them. They will release them and may pay compensation. It wasn't the object to change the system. Saddam is better in human right, women right, minority right than the regimes in Jordan, Saudi, Kuwait , Pakistan and many other countries....In Saudi Arabia, women has no right to drive beside all the other rights. No one church there even for people who are working there. Other Islamic branch has no right as Wahhabi's in Saudi Arabia. But in Saddam regime were Christian, women, Kurds, Shiite in the government.

4. Continuing jailing the old regime members even after WMD were found. I don't know why the Scientists [among of them women] that alleged helping the regime in the WMD are in prisons till now.

5. Repeating wrongly that Shite is majority in Iraq. In Iraq there are Arabs and Kurds. Kurd are Sunnis. The Arab and Kurd Sunnis are the majority. That why for the third time after Saddam the president is Sunni or Kurd.

6.. Canceling the Bath Party was wrong making the democracy to the minority (who were no members in that party or were in exile. Al Quida against the Bath party since Baath has word social in his name and is secular movement.

7. Canceling the Iraqi Army was big mistake .It has bad effect of control borders , driving the army personnel to involve in the Resistance. They who knows how to take the arms from the street and use it in Resistance. They who knows how to use it effectively. It is hard to develop new army from scratch

8. Criticizing Syria that allow terrorist coming from its border. It is up to the enter ant Countries to defend their border. Syria and Al Qaeda at odd. You in USA can not close your border with Mexico and illegal immigrant about 20 millions. My analysis show that they are entering from Saudi Arabia where there are long border and El Qaueda are strong and still active in this Kingdom. But no words about Saudi Arabia. Moreover they closed eyes for people that were coming from Iran (officially or illegally). Do you know that the Sistani who is the spiritual leader to them has no Iraqis citizenship and doesn't apply to become Iraqi.

9. Criticizing Saddam about Kurd? But what Turkey is doing with Kurds is ok. Help Kurd to make their state in Iraq even in the time od the sanction against Iraq between the first and second Iraq war. You against any territories to this state from Kurdish place in Turkey just because it is your Allies and you don't want upset them a little.

10. Trail Sadam for killing 150 shiti after assesenation attempt for the head of state. Every day in average 60 Iraqis are killed.

11. Critising Sadam for abuse and they do more than him.

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