I always wonder why im here. What am i supposed to do. Is someone watching me.


What is God? Who is God? Why do some people conclude that a God
exists? Saint Thomas Aquinas goes from the fact that there must be a first
efficient cause to the conclusion that God is that cause. Why must Aquinas
make the extraordinary jump from there being a cause, to assuming that this
cause must be God? Would it not be just as plausible to make matter the first
cause? Matter is the substance that any physical object is composed of.
Matter is closed and finite, with no beginning or end. The best explanation to
the existence of God, is that God does not exist as a first efficient cause. The
argument for God, as presented by Aquinas, is to show that the existence of
the world and everything in it can only be explained if there is a God who is
the first cause. The argument states that it is impossible for any being to be
the efficient cause of itself because then it would have to bring itself into
being, and to bring itself into being, it would have to exist before it existed. If
a being exists, it is because some being prior to it, was it's cause. Therefore,
if no first cause exists, neither will any other being exist. Therefore, there is a
first efficient cause--God. This argument assumes that a first cause is needed
to explain the existence of anything. Aquinas also assumes this first cause to
be God. How can anyone rationally conclude that there is a God from the
simple statement that a first cause is necessary? Therefore, a first cause does
not prove God, it only assumes that there is a God, at best. Could one not
put matter in the place of God in Aquinas' argument and still assume there is
a first efficient cause? The theory that matter "is", is just as plausible as the
theory that God "is". Matter is closed and finite in extent, with no beginning
or end. Putting Matter in the place of God in the end of the argument given by
Aquinas, is just as plausible. In fact, matter is an easier concept to understand
and to believe in than God. Everyone has a different view of what God is and
even what he stands for, but many of those same people understand the
concepts of matter. Matter is all around us, and even we are matter. We
interact with matter everyday and in every situation, so the knowledge of
matter is not trivial. God does not interact with us, he is not around us, and
we do not associate with God in the same manner in which we associate with
matter. Matter is an understandable concept while God is abstract. The
properties of matter make it a suitable conclusion for Aquinas' argument in
place of God. The explanation of God is then not needed and therefore there
is no place for God in the discussion of the origin of matter. Therefore, the
best explanation is that God does not exist as a first efficient cause. Not only
is matter an easier concept to understand and relate to than God, It is also a
tremendous leap of faith to put anything as the first efficient cause. If you
were to conclude that there had to be a first efficient cause, why would one
assume that God was that cause. God, of all things, is the most abstract idea
that exists. Why does Aquinas make this huge jump to God when matter
would also fit in his explanation? Matter may even be a better concept then
that of God because we are comfortable with what matter is. Why then, do
people of so many different cultures and backgrounds, turn to the belief of a
God as the first cause. Surely if so many people believe, they must have some
clout as to what they are believing. These people are only believing in God
because it is given as a conclusion to us as a being. Matter is just as suitable
of a conclusion to us as a being and it answers the first efficient cause
argument. Matter is not nearly as abstract of an idea and in fact, we are
matter, so the notion that matter "is" is not nearly as far fetched as the idea
that God "is". The same people who say that God is the first efficient cause
also believe in matter. At the same time, more people believe in the concept
of matter and what it is than believe in God. In fact, they believe in the very
same types of matter while their beliefs of God as the first efficient cause
remain very different. These cultures must have a reason for turning to God
rather than matter as their first efficient cause. The reason is that they can give
God supernatural powers that do not exist with matter. These supernatural
powers differ greatly between cultures, so the main reason they turn to God is
very different in similar cases. The reason that cultures turn to God instead of
mater is that they can assign these supernatural powers at free will, while the
concept of matter is well defined. God is just an easy approach to the
unsolved mysteries and theories of the universe. However, matter is a better
fit. Overall, I have shown that the argument given by Aquinas only assumes
God, it does not prove it. Matter "is", just as God "is". Furthermore, I have
shown that the explanation of God is not needed and therefore there is no
place for God in the discussion of the first cause. Therefore, God does not
exist as a first efficient cause.


Thank you everyone.

 

 

 

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I do not believe in God. Due to the fact that there is not facts of fact of his existence. There fore he does not exist.
He only exist in peoples imagination. (So yes I agree with you)

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How do you mean it is closed and finite, and then again with no begining or end. It is contradictionary statement?
How can something be finite with no beginning or end?

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God exists, and I have true Facts that God exists, if you wanna learn more just reply, because I will say these facts in details, and I don't want to waste time to write a full detailed article about it, to ind out that no one cares. So If you want to know ,which is the duty of every human on earth, simply ask.

Who is God? God is the point where everything started.
Why do God exists? God exists because everything came from something. Scientists said that the universe was created by a number of rocks. Oh really?! But who did put these rocks there in the first place.
Just some questions for you TypoMage: Didn't you ever wonder what's your purpose in life? Or how this complex life system works? How that someone put water for us to drink, yet that we need it to live? How food is on earth? Are we here as a coincidence? Everything from huge planets to small atoms are created by someone. And this last thing is a fact, and do not need further explanations.
Or do you think that a human created this universe and this complex system? God sent us holy books, which contained detailed description about how life was created how human was created.
And more than that, God told in these books, things that scientists proved. How come a book in 800 after Jesus Christ, knows things that scientists discovered from a couple years ago?? Is this book made by humans?
NO, this book was sent from God, who knows everything the future, the present and the past.
If you want facts, I'll give you facts: One of the Holy books, had paragraphs said by God which said:" Earth is not created from one piece but from large rocky parts, and that's how earthquakes and volcanoes happens in this planet"
This book was written from about 1500 years ago, but you know what, the thing that spoked about like this speech, was proven by scientists in 1900.
Is that a coincidence? Of course not, but that was a fact given by God to us so that people like TypoMage who needs facts and real evidence of God's existence, can now be sure that God exists.
Now that's only one of lots of facts, if you need more info and facts just ask.

 

 

 

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Those rocks could have just always existed. There were neither created nor can they ever all be destroyed.



Playing devil's advocate here, there must be thousands or millions of planets in our Local Group yet we are the only planet with the correct ingredients for life. Out of all the millions of species on the Earth, we are the only life form intelligent enough to build things for our comfort and not for necessary for our survival.



Ever since the beginning of human civilisation, people have had theories about how the Earth got to where it a today; many of those remained undocumented. Who's to say that in recent years Joe Bloggs hasn't come up with the actual reason why dinosuars became extinct, dismissed it and carried on with his life? The same thing could have easily happened about gravity and other concepts and in this case, how the Earth was created but, this theory was published.

Still playing devil's advocate, all that theory says is that it was created from large rocky parts; so? I think that even the simplest of people could look at the ground and say, "I wonder if the entire Earth was created from this rock. It would have to be lots of big rocks that created the Earth because the Earth is big. Therefore, I conclude that Earth was created from big rocks."

For the same reason I could look at my wooden bookshelf and say I wonder it that was created from wood!

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In my real opinion, there is no way to prove to anybody that God does or does not exist because the whole point in their being a belief in a God in the first place, is that He is above our current and all our future scientific understanding; he is the answer to our deepest questions. Back in the days of early farming where religious ideas started, the farmers praised God and begged he gave them the ideal conditions to grow their crops. Because they had no idea about the formation of rain, God does it.

God does the incomprehensible. Whatever science cannot explain, religion will always find a way.

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What Come on isn't it obvious? God is made up, by humans. To Cause fear, so we will behave. Like people say that God wants you to not steal, or do any bad things. (Or he will smite you or something like that)
It was to Cause order in people to make us behave. But I do not Care for such a thing. There is not any actual proof. It is very easy to lie.

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Obviously you don't want to believe in God, even with true facts. Well you needed facts, I provided some, now you say it's a lie, so be it. You are not trying to learn, and I bet you didn't read my post, just forget it, God doesn't want you to believe in him.

Excuse me, but what is that suppose to mean?

It's true that humans invented theories about earth, but almost every human said things that really happened and said things that didn't. But give me one thing that Holy Books said and appeared to be a lie? If everything that was said by Holy Books was true, so surely what it said about God is true. Because someone who tells always the truth won't you believe everything he said?
How come science can explain God? There is no possible or logical way. Science is the study of logical things, but some things are illogical. Let's take an example of people who sees phantoms in dark places, can science explain this? no, and for your information, a video tape showing a black shade in Prince Williams Castle, was published from about 5 years in TV, and this shade past in a magnificent speed that Guards weren't able to see it.

Do you agree that humans were created by someone? That's Logical, someone smarter than us. We are just analyzing what he did giving theories about what he has done, but we are not able to do anything!! Not even creating a small tiny, little bee, which can move her wings thousands of times in a second. Do you think that animals are invented by humans? Definitely not, but by someone of course more intelligent than any human. That is logical, or do you believe only what scientists say. Or their logic is different than this logic?
Do you think that when you die you will just be buried in sands? And voilą it's over? That's not the end, that's the beginning of another part of this life. Or do you think that the ones who steal, or kill, or do bad things or cause pain to others will one day just die, and will never be punished?
And please don't call me names, because that is what I believe in, and you should accept people as they are.

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well i'm interested. i want to know your facts of the existence of God. i think you should post it so people [who are interested] will reply. you need not care about those who won't reply. i'm sure people WILL have something to say about it.


uh, that really didn't explain why "god exists". you could've said "god exists because he created everything out of nothing". basically it's logical to put the existence of god as an explanation as to how everything came into place--i'm talking about the creation of man (and apparently, everything) in the book of genesis. what science attempts to prove and fails to do so, religion comes up with a reason that is logical enough to explain the phenomenon.


who said that? was that a joke or something? i didn't know inanimate objects like rocks can create an entire universe. and what, just A NUMBER OF ROCKS? wow seriously, the universe is like a container, it contains all the intergalactic matter that can be found or has yet to be discovered.


even though these questions are not directed to me, i'd like to give some reactions about them. actually, humans, just like any other animal, has an instinct for survival. if they felt pain on the middle part of their body, or should i say the abdomen, and they suddenly develop this need to relieve that pain. that's how "eating" came into place. it's only natural for animals to react to stimuli that their bodies create.


isn't the bible just an archive of stories of people in the past? they wrote those like diaries or journals, which contains some stuff that may lead us to think that god was involved. like for example, "i was walking alone then all of the sudden the ground shook and i was thrown in many directions. what is this unkown force that shakes the ground? maybe it's some higher being that controls the ground, or probably moves it with its own hands" or something along those lines. the point is that whoever wrote those that were included in the bible are intuitive humans that inspect their surroundings, and think of something that is acceptable through their values. (come to think of it, people back then also do journals. it's like the "blogging" trend in their era ) for example, in tribes, if the volcano grumbles, "they must have angered the gods", thus they want to please it by doing rituals, or "by acting accordingly" so they won't be punished.

and if god DID ever exist, why doesn't he (well since you refer to him as a HE, i should use that for now) show up? is he shy? does he fear that his subordinates will judge him when they see him? whether they see him or not, he's still their god, like they can do anything about it. he at least owe his subordinates that one.


exactly. i mentioned that without reading your post!

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actually, that's the point of a "theory". it's yet to be proven. while it might or might not be true, it still presents a more realistic approach on the subject. but it's not much different with religion explaining stuff. humans themselves created religion, and along with that, the existence of god. so a human thinking that "these unexplainable events must be the doing of someone more powerful." to them that's more logical, more acceptable.


uh, i have a question. i've been wanting to ask this since the last devout person who sat beside me and talked about all those bible stuff. if the garden of eden was "paradise" how come god allowed satan to pass there and have the forbidden fruit inside the garden? i mean forgive my rudeness, but isn't that kinda stupid? if i don't want evil in my place, i would drive them away myself and not just tell my "creatures" to avoid eating the fruit. wouldn't that render him powerless over evil?

oh and one more thing. isn't your god a very manipulative god? for someone who says "i would give you free will" he sure knows how to manipulate humans into "going back to him". in the end there's no such thing as free will. if there's a fork in the road, one points to the edge of the cliff and one to the city, if i go to the road that goes to the edge of the cliff, i would die, so that means, i would rather go to the road that leads to the city. in the end, i don't have much of a choice, do i? it's like saying, "here are your options, but mind you, if you follow mine, you'll be fine. mine is the best among those other options".

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It means I'm deliberately opposing your beliefs and theories to test them and that they might not represent my actual opinions.



It's like crop circles. Aliens did it Science cannot explain that at the moment because most of the time these stunts were performed by hoaxers. Until science can explain it, guess who fills in - God and aliens; just like I said.

And about when you die, there is some first-hand proof that dying isn't it. I can't find any references now but there are lots of recorded instances where people have died for longer than three minutes* yet have come back to life. These people claim to have gone to hell where they were put in a dark and silent room with no walls. They couldn't see their hands in front of their faces because they don't have any any more. They say that after a certain while this demonic voice comes out of nowhere and bellows, "You are here because you deserve to be" When they become alive again after being given a second chance, they can recall everything that happened between the time they died and came alive. I don't think any of them remembered the transaction between life on Earth to life in hell.

I don't remember their names but I do know one got stung by a jellyfish and another one was involved in a car accident. If you want I'll try and find their names. The jellyfish man has since started preaching his story all over the world and has converted from a devout atheist to a devout Christian.



I think God put it there to test Adam and Eve's faithfulness. "You can have this garden as long as you don't eat from the Tree of Knowledge".

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*Scientifically if you're dead for fewer than three minutes there is still some hope of your coming back to
life; any longer than that and there is no chance. ==============================================================================+

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