1) Application form for free hosting account didn't work, it just sent me to post a new topic. So I posted I wanted an account, and had no form, so it was denied. Ended up trying the next morning, same thing happened, no form, so I did what somebody else did, and just copied the info from another post, and filled it in. Application approved.

2) I had over 100 credits, and asked for a 10 credit account, so I wouldn't use extra resources until my site was ready to open for business, as it were. Skipped coming into forum for one day (doing backups, pc maintenance, housework, errands, etc.) and my credits were down to 0.36 days credit. I didn't realize I would lose all my credits I had built up at the time I got my account. Be careful not to run out immediately, lol.

3) I want to do a portal site. I looked over Fantastico, to see what portal software was available, and noticed the installation on some of them takes more than 10 Megs. Fortunately, the one I decided on didn't take that much.

4) I went to these two sites to do a little research on portal scripts available here. Open Source CMS - CMS Ratings
CMS Matrix.org

I was going to go with Xoops, but after visiting these two sites, I decided not to. At the matrix, after you check some boxes and get a chart, you can weed out one or more, and uncheck those boxes, and hit the button again to get a smaller chart. I kept doing that until I was down to three choices, Drupal, Joomla, and Mambo. After comparing features of them, at the matrix, I narrowed it down to Joomla and Drupal. After reading 128 comments about Drupal, and 51 comments about Joomla at CMS Ratings, I decided to go with Drupal, I think it will work best for what I need.

5) Comments about setting up portals in Joomla and Drupal turned out to be irrelevant. Fantastico made setting up Drupal a matter of filling in a few boxes and hitting the button! I couldn't believe how easy it was.

6) Spent yesterday hunting down all the info I have accululated on doing a website off of the other pc, backing it all up, and burning it to CD so I will have it on this pc. Spent last night loading and unpacking a lot of backup stuff on this pc from the other one. I have let it get into such a mess, one big bunch of files and programs and stuff all over the place. Tried to organize the backup stuff in general. Still have to organize the stuff specifically for doing my website. Imported all of my bookmarks from the other pc to this one, no idea how many, maybe 4,000 or so total. Have to organize both sets into one list now. Lesson learned: don't let your website research stuff get disorganized. It's going to be a big chore sorting all of that out, I have several years worth of it.

7) When I installed Drupal, I was offered four default website templates. I took the one that I liked best. I'll worry about actual colors and design looks later. I definitely want to change from the default template later. First step: working more on the IA for my website. I need to set up blocks on Drupal, which just means blocking in areas for different types of content on the pages. Next step: figuring out categories to organize my portal links into. That won't be easy, since I intend to have a large group of links in a lot of categories. Yeah, I'm being ambitious, but I want to have a few hundred links on the portal before it's ready to 'open'. And I also need to write a few articles for the site before it's ready. I plan to ask for site reviews once I get a bit more of it done here on Trap17. As usual, I spent all night here browsing the forums, I got to get to bed. I'll do more work after I get up.

 

 

 

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Wow, four thousand bookmarks... yes, you'll be busy sorting that out. Good luck with it.

Sounds like you aren't just jumping into it. I would be interested in finding out more about the decision to use Drupal and the factors which caused you to select that one CMS. Do they offer anything in particular which you need or were the others lacking something? Other members might benefit from your comments about this decision.

There is another user currently looking for a CMS to adapt his site. I'll send them a link to this topic to see how you have proceeded. They may wish to copy your methods. Thanks for posting the topic.

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Yeah, I found the application process a bit user-unfriendly when I signed up too.

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There are a lot of good Open Source CMS's out there. As to which one to choose, it really is a matter of what level of experimenting you're comfortable with. Some have better support forums than others, from what I've read. I don't know what the others are like, but the Drupal Support forum seems to be pretty fast at responding to posts. I haven't made one yet, I've just been browsing through existing ones.

Before setting up a site, you should work on your Information Architecture. Which means at the most basic level, what do you want to put on the site, and what will it be used for? For example, will it be a blog, with a calender and archives? An art site with galleries, membership login and user submitted pictures? A forum site with a home page with some news on it, and a few RSS (live news) feeds from other sites?

From what I have read, if your site is going to be fairly simple in layout and types of content, Joomla is the easiest for a non-technical beginner to use. It is a spinoff from Mambo, and apparently, there was a lot of politics behind the Joomla group splitting off from the Mambo group. Mambo is getting sued, and the main author turned it over to a foundation he made. Some of the people working on developing Mambo didn't like that, and basically had different ideas of the direction they wanted to develop it in. So they set up a separate development group, and call their version Joomla. Apparently most if not all of the themes, modules and addons for Mambo still work for Joomla. But Joomla has tended towards a more beginner-friendly CMS, so it would probably be better for a non-technical beginner.

My site is going to be a portal with original articles written by me, possibly users in the future, and some copied public syndication articles. It will also eventually have RSS news feeds set up on it. It will have an archive of past articles on it, and sections with tips on it. But the main thing I wanted it to have is a directory of links, sort of like Yahoo's directory. Mine will be much smaller and specialized in just a few areas. I may offer downloads of eBooks at some point. I will probably have those hosted at a file storage site and just link to it, because of bandwidth usage. There's more stuff that will be on the site, as well, but I don't feel like pasting my IA analysis here, lol. It's long!

Since my site will have a lot of features, and a lot of content, I need some way to really categorize content well and keep it organized. And a really good navigation system to work with the categories.

That's why I chose Drupal, it has an extremely flexible method for organizing content. It's very powerful that way. It is also capable of powering a very large complicated site, as well. Which my site will be eventually, as it grows.

Currently, I haven't really messed with Drupal beyond setting up a first account and changing the site time to my time zone (EST). I got to looking through the admin area a bit, and realized the reviews I had read about it having a steep learning curve weren't exaggerating! It's not beginner friendly, especially for people that are not very technical like me. Fortunately, I have a high learning curve, so I am willing to tackle it. It seems extremely complicated so far. I need to do a lot of tutorial and documentation reading on Drupal before I even think of trying to set up a site. I did a bit of searching for Drupal themes, and have at least one I like, and some more to check out later before I decide which one to use.

From what I have read so far about it, even some programmers have trouble learning how to use Drupal. Not because it's that complicated, but because it has its own way of using terms and doing things. It's sort of its own unique environment. Until you get used to how it's organized and works, it's pretty confusing. The reason seems to be that the developers wanted to make an extremely good flexible CMS that could do just about anything. And as with any software, the more it can do, the more complicated it is to learn how to use. (Look at Photoshop, for example, that program kind of intimidates me, lol.)

Unfortunately, I need some of Drupal's flexibility, so I have to just plow through and do a lot of reading and learning. There is not really any documentation of getting started with the basics, like a step-by-step guide of how to set up particular types of websites with it yet. Just one on how to set up a basic company brochure type of site, which is not what I need at all.

Part of the trouble with it is that there may be several different ways to do the same thing with it. People are still trying different methods and trying to see which is the most efficient way to do particular things. So there is a certain reluctance to put stuff in the official handbook before they are sure it's the best way to do something. People have contributed various modules, and which ones you choose to install depends on what you need to do with your site personally. So there is no "one right way" to do stuff for everyone. There's a lot of different ways that will work.

I've read enough on it by now that I know I need to work on learning all its terminology before I can go much further. Drupal's terminology is different from what people would consider "normal", let alone intuitive (not at all intuitive). There's a lot of specialized terms relating to specialized tasks you can perform in Drupal.

Photoshop is a pretty good analogy for Drupal. For somebody that's not familiar with graphics programs, it's very hard to learn Photoshop. Even if you have used other graphics programs, it's still hard to learn how to use Photoshop. And even after you are comfortable using it, there's always more to learn about it. It can just do so much. But the things you can create with it after you've learned how to use it are great. So if you're willing and motivated enough to learn how to use it, it's worth it. Definitely time well spent for what you will get out of it in the future. And you will be able to learn how to do new things in the future as you go along that you never dreamed you would be able to do as a beginner.

Drupal is like that. An extremely flexible tool that can do all sorts of things. Most of the users themselves are not sure what all it is capable of yet. About the time they get that figured out, the developers will probably add more to it, lol. So there will always be more to learn about it. But in the end, it will be worth it to some people to take the time to learn how to use it. It can do things no other CMS can do. I intend to get more and more into developing my website over time until it is one of the main ones for its type. I can't afford to pay an expert to do this stuff for me, and that would not allow me to use my own creativity, either. So if I want a really great website, I need to learn an extremely effective, flexible system like Drupal myself.

In short, I would not recommend Drupal unless you are a technical-minded person, or willing to learn to do stuff like one. And if you are not planning a very complex site, you really don't need it. So don't use it at all for a simpler site unless you're willing to spend a good bit of time learning its unique environment.

I need to learn more of its terminology before I can even understand more about it. Then I need to learn what each part of it is for, and what they can do before I can learn how to use them. Then I'll be ready for overview level tutorials. Then I can decide what modules I will need to install, and read up on how to use them. Then I can start working on the site itself. Until then, my account will be more of an experimental area than a site that's going up fast, lol. Once I get more comfortable with it, I may even write some beginner level tutorials, which are kind of lacking. They don't even have a beginner overview telling you which stuff to learn in which order to use it yet. Once I learn something, I don't forget what it was like to be a beginner. So I can explain things from a beginner's level well. By the time I get to that point, maybe someone will have done those kind of tutorials by then, and I won't feel it necessary to do any, who knows?

I think it would be pretty useful for people trying to decide what CMS to use if people using different ones on Trap17 would post their comments on learning how to use them.

The latest on this:

I have been doing a lot of studying on Drupal, haven't really tinkered with it much on my site yet.

I found out the version currently available in Trap17's Fantastico (ver 4.6.3) is a couple of stable releases behind the current one. The 4.6.3 version has some security problems that have been taken care of in the later releases. So I decided to try to upgrade it to 4.6.5 myself. I was pretty nervous about it, as I've never done anything like that before. It didn't help that all the stuff on upgrading said backup your site and database first. I didn't have anything on the site yet, so I probably didn't really need to do a backup, but I figured I needed to learn how anyway.

Backing up the files was simple, just copying all the files in my Drupal installation folder by FTP to my desktop. The part I was really nervous about was backing up the database. I have never done anything with databases before, always considered it too technical for me. Fortunately, I found great instructions on how to do it. Short, simple, and with pictures, anybody could do it with this help:

Backing up your DB with PHPMyAdmin

So I had no trouble backing it up with the help above. Then I was ready to upgrade the first step from 4.6.3 to 4.6.4. Fortunately, there were no database changes in the code for it. So I found instructions for an easy way to do it here:
Upgrading Drupal from 4.6.3 to 4.6.4

That blog belongs to a guy who contributes to the Drupal project a lot. He's right, it was easy! I read on one of his Drupal forum posts elsewhere that he used this same method to upgrade from 4.6.4 to 4.6.5 as well. So I used this method to upgrade both times. The site is still there, and seems to be working as far as I can tell, so it was far easier than I ever thought it could be!

I downloaded a couple of extra templates for Drupal, one from the Drupal theme site called Slurpee. I like the layout, but the colors are a bit gaudy, I may experiment with changing it someday. The other theme I found on a German Drupal site, it's a modification of the standard Drupal Bluemarine theme. It's called Bluemarine/KDE, and it's the one I have on the site by default now. I like it more than any theme for Drupal I've seen so far.

Installing a new Drupal theme is easy, just unzip the theme folder and FTP it to the 'themes' folder in your Drupal installation.

There is something you should know about Drupal themes if you're going to use Drupal. Drupal has two theme engines, Xtemplate, and PHPtemplate. Xtemplate is the one already installed, PHPtemplate will be in the next stable release, predicted for around the end of this year sometime. Some people are already using PHPtemplate to make themes with and submitting them for public use. You should check to see if the theme is Xtemplate or PHPtemplate. If it's PHPtemplate, you will have to download and install that theme engine for the theme to work on your site.

I read that the next version they are working on now has over 200 bugs, and over a dozen of those are critical, so I wouldn't recommend using it for anything but a test site if you want to help test it. Upgrade to 4.6.5 and leave it at that for now.

I have been doing some more research and work on content and IA for my site, so I haven't really gotten around to working with Drupal itself much yet. Currently, I still need to make a copyright notice and disclaimer for the site. After I get those figured out, I'll be ready to start installing modules and trying to actually put the site together. I figure I will start with the easier stuff first, then add things like surveys, voting, and RSS feeds later.

After doing a lot of reading about Drupal, I keep seeing people with problems doing stuff asking questions about how to do this or that, and the main reply is it will be easier with the next release. Apparently, they're going to considerably improve Drupal's user-friendliness in the next release. You may not have to be a PHP programmer to set up a site the way you want to. So as much as I'm impressed by the versatility of Drupal, I think I'm going to wait for the next stable release. The new beta version has a ton of bugs in it yet, so I'm not even going to try it until it's out of beta. I'm thinking of trying another CMS in the meantime. Probably Joomla, since it's supposed to be one of the most beginner-friendly. That way I can get a site up and learn how to use the next Drupal stable version and switch over later.

 

 

 

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Reading about your experience signing up for your hosting account and going on to make a website got me thinking about my own experience. I joined 2 weeks ago and applied for hosting as soon as I had enough credits. I did take some time reading some of the previous applications and was a bit surprised to see a number that were rejected ... but then seeing that the reasoning for the rejection was always carefully explained made me realise that the trap17 admins were taking a responsible position, which is a good thing.

Anyway, because I had read other applications, it made it all the more easy for me when I came to make my hosting application, and because I was aware that approval was not automatic, when I was approved it sort of felt good. A bit like passing your driving test first time round.

And it seems to me that the credit system is quite clever, once you get hosted you realize that 1 credit point translates to 1 free day of hosting, obvious when you think about it, but not obvious if you are at all aware of the complicated points systems used by some other sites.

On to making a website. I admit, I only have a vague idea of what sort of site I want, so we will call the current process the "investigation process". I have a friend that has a website selling stuff that is a real utility site, there is nothing that makes you want to stay on his site longer than you have to: just long enough to select item, fill out payment details, click "submit". I shouldn't think anyone visits his site just to browse, how many sales does he miss because of this?

Which got me thinking, how would you make my friend's site, your "typical" ecommerce site, more attractive to a larger audience so as to increase traffic and ultimately sales?

One way would be to build up your audience first on your chosen subject, then tack on the ecommerce site to an already popular site. That way any first time visitor will (hopefully) be hooked by say reading the forum and then go on to become a regular customer.

So my current efforts have so far led me to integrate a blog (WordPress) with a forum (PunBB) and an ecommerce store (osCommerce) into one website. There's a lot to learn and it is all too easy to get sidetracked. 2 weeks ago I had never heard of WordPress or PunBB, or content management systems for that matter, now I find myself downloading and trying out Joomla! and Mambo type programs just for fun.

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i is very nice what i fond here, thx for how had firs ideea and for how post after that.
i intend to have my own trap17.com host and i try to see how it is working. i got some ideeas but is very nice to see the experience of persons which had got one before me
i hope, soon, to put my aplication for free hosting. i'm sure that your experience will be usefull to me.
at leat i know where to come and ask

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I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences in Trap17. This is how a user would be if he/she didn't read the terms and conditions properly.

In the FREE WEB HOSTING REQUESTS forum, there's a pinned topic stated clearly that the form is to be used when requesting for a web hosting account. See screenshot below.

In that topic, it was further stated that the form is to be used, otherwise would be void.



If you've read all the documents, you will realise that once you request a web hosting account, your total hosting credits gets resetted. I can't find the reference to it. Probably someone else may be able to post the source to this.

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I don't consider myself to have any "bad" experiences with applying for an account here. I use enough software to consider minor little glitches of any kind on the computer or internet to just be normal. I tried the link to the hosting form every time, but didn't get a form, the link wasn't working at that time. Hopefully it is now, but if not, anybody who reads my post will know to just copy the form off of another post if the link is still not working and they don't think of just doing it themselves first. As for losing my total account point credit balance, no big deal, it was all free anyway. I can always just post for more. I just thought I would mention it since it wasn't blatantly obvious that would happen, for the benefit of others so they would know about it in advance.

Some complain about every little thing if they don't know about it in advance, but are less likely to complain if they do know in advance. That's one of the reasons I mentioned it. And of course, a lot of people don't complain, they just want to know what to expect before it happens. I figure if Trap17 is willing to give premium hosting for free, it would take some nerve to complain about minor little things that are bound to happen now and then. As in "don't look a gift horse in the mouth". It is my opinion after seeing what kind of free hosting other hosts provide that people should just be glad Trap17 is doing this and not expect everything to be done just the way they would personally prefer it. Trap17 is probably the very best free host online, grab an account while you can and be thankful for the opportunity.

I just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding about having "bad" experiences with Trap, I think it rocks!

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I didn't have any problems with getting hosting. Everything worked fine and dandy and seemed to be okay. Hopefully it is working now. Otherwise there would be more complaints like this. I am glad you got through it though You did the right thing though by going and looking up everything, although it seems to me you spent an excessive amount of time doing it, although I think you will reap greater reward with the way you did do it.

When I built my site, I did it without a glitch. I used html mainly and very little of anything else. Html is easy to work with and al browsers understand and can see it, although it still isn't as fancy as Flash or Java, or even PHP.

Wow! 4000 bookmarks. You have some work ahead of you. I don't even have that much. Good luck with it.
I prefer to organize as I bookmark. I have folders for different stuff and it is all in there. It works much better than trying to put it all in one folder.

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