Now my point, I believe in being able to argue both sides of the puzzle, it helps to keep an open mind. I believe in God (or at least a body which is better in all ways to myself, and all humanity) in principle, I don't believe that he controls all aspects of my life, I conpaire it to a piece of open source software, God is the origional programer, he made the software to his specifications, but after releasing it on the internet lets it grow and 'evolve' into its own software. Thus is also accept the theories of evolution. You want more Evidence, try this, right now we are faced with the problem of calling it Christmas, it not right because not everybody practices christmas, but many groups have simmilar celibrations, with many of the same themes. It is similar evidence to this that is used to argue atlantis, at about the same time historicaly on diffrent parts of the world (seperated by oceans) stories are carved in stone that a tell a similar thing, of a civilization who had hot running water and many advanced technologies, that sunk under the ocean. It would seem that the only way for this story to be told around the world would be for a group of people to have escaped the sinking and traveled around the world telling their story!

After all, fish get eaten, we don’t, the fish shouldn’t be here right now, we should have stomped them out through “natural selection”.

I am truly sorry for the crunching of your words into larger sections. I'm not allowed to have structured Q-A conversation apparently. Can we get rid of this quote limit?

Evolution itself is a solid FACT, and could be described as a scientific LAW (DIFFERENT than a theory in that it DESCRIBES A PROCCESS WE KNOW that occurs in the natural world, unlike a THEORY, which DESCRIBES HOW SOMETHING OCCCURS). [1]Evolution THROUGH NATURAL SELECTION IS A THEORY, but it is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY, which is well tested and proven through the SCIENTIFIC METHOD before being recognised as a theory. It is NOT a THEORY in the layman's terms of the word, which makes it easy to make a straw man argument against it because you think that it is just as well thought out as a HYPOTHESIS, which is NOT A THEORY.

Evolution ISN'T just believed by atheists alone. I am a freethought and I believe in evolution. Only organised religion tries to discredit evolution.

No. The universe was already there. It was just a rediculously hot mass of energy. Then it expanded into something which could be capable of housing vast galaxies and even life after several billion years of development.

But wait, there is more. You see we weren’t here yet. We were just organisms in the ocean.

- You couldn't call the first life forms "organisms". The first "life forms" were viruses, which are not technically alive from a scientific point of view.

- This is not evolution. This is natural selection, which can be disproven, but is the most well accepted theory.

[1]Evolution adapts us to the environment which we live in through mutation. [2]This is why you can't place a goldfish in the ocean.

Also, in order for an organism to become smart it must have the capacity to learn. [...] However, if you were to try an teach a neanderthal how to speak you might end up running into a problem because they aren't humans, they are neanderthals - close but no cigar.

- Because we evolved for a need for a certain fork of ape which needed to have toolmaking abilities.

if that is the best real evidence that is available then i will have to remain to be a non believer in god and religion.
you take quotes from the bible to prove that it is a books full of facts on how the world works , unfortunately you do not give any credit to the authors of the bible ... i am sure that they were not dumb people , in fact they were probably extremely clever and had quite a few original ideas themselves how the world worked.
one thing is still unproven to me by your real evidence .... is the bible a literary work of fact or fiction , most likely in my mind is that it is a collection of stories that have been exaggerated over a period time.
the only one thing that religion has brought to this world is death caused by the numerous wars between deffierent religious factions.

You forget one thing though Niloc. Let us say that the Bible had been written by someone else. If it was and is not credible, it would still have been put together around the middle ages. Meaning? That whoever wrote what ahead of their time since the early midle age beliefs were still focused on the fact that the world was round, that air was weightless, and that there were only a few thousand stars.

No one without either advanced hidden technology for that day, or super natural guidance would have had the oppurtunity to get ALL of the theories right the very first time they were written down. Thereby in itself backing the Bible as a feature that was guided by something more then just man's imagination. It was inspired, and Christians believe, by God.

By examining both the age that the Bible was written in, (The Bible was written before 1200 ad since the early churches already had parts of the Bible. But interestingly enough it was put together in 1611 in the complete Bible we now have today) and the fact that beliefs even up to the 1400s were contrary to what a book written before then had, we can very well believe that the Bible is true.

But we don't need to go looking for Noah's Ark to find confirmation of details found in the Bible. During the past century or so, archeologists have found the first mention of Israel outside the Bible, in an Egyptian inscription carved by the pharaoh Merneptah in the year 1207 B.C. They have found mentions of Israelite kings, including Omri, Ahab, and Jehu, in neo-Assyrian inscriptions from the early first millennium B.C. And they have found, most recently, a mention of the House of David in an inscription from northern Israel dating to the ninth century B.C. These are conclusive pieces of evidence that these people and places once existed and that at least parts of the Bible are historically accurate. Perhaps none of these is as attention-getting as finding Noah's Ark, but they serve to deepen our understanding of, and appreciation for, the Bible.

Religious archeologists and secular archeologists frequently work side by side in the Holy Land. Among the top ranks of researchers, there are evangelical Christians, orthodox Jews, and people of many denominations. It is not religious views that are the issue here; it is whether good science is being done. Biblical archeology is a field in which people of good will, and all religions, can join under the banner of the scientific process.

I am truly sorry for the crunching of your words into larger sections. I'm not allowed to have structured Q-A conversation apparently. Can we get rid of this quote limit?

Evolution itself is a solid FACT, and could be described as a scientific LAW (DIFFERENT than a theory in that it DESCRIBES A PROCCESS WE KNOW that occurs in the natural world, unlike a THEORY, which DESCRIBES HOW SOMETHING OCCCURS). Evolution THROUGH NATURAL SELECTION IS A THEORY, but it is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY, which is well tested and proven through the SCIENTIFIC METHOD before being recognised as a theory. It is NOT a THEORY in the layman's terms of the word, which makes it easy to make a straw man argument against it because you think that it is just as well thought out as a HYPOTHESIS, which is NOT A THEORY.

<span style='color:red'>Please move if needed, there still isn’t a RELIGION forum and I could not find any relevant topics coinciding with this!</span>
Boy, is this consroversial, but I wrote it a while back and thought I would post it
Some things are beyond our comprehension folks. Things that we will never understand. There are journeys we take in our life that cause us to have mixed feelings, beliefs, and ultimately, big differences between us. We feel as though we are a small part of a vast universe in its travels. We have seen the shame, the evil, and the unjustness. Many doubt that there is a God, many people know there is, but refuse to accept Him. I have myself rejected a loving God. Though I didn’t know it at the time. Raised in a Christian family, I have always believed in God. I took it by faith, and still do. But some people can never believe in something, if they cannot see the evidence, or even the object itself. Forum members, today, I am going to bring you the truth and facts, the evidence, if you will, that shows there IS a God. Let us start.

Evolutionist’s viewpoint:
The evolutionist believes that the world began when a “Big Bang” caused an instantaneous creation of the universe. But wait, there is more. You see we weren’t here yet. We were just organisms in the ocean. What we were before that, I have no idea probably sludge or something. But let’s move on. We evolved, slowly through a process of selection until we started to be perfected, with the fit surviving. Strange huh? Now, with evolutions theory, we will soon become perfect. But there are some flaws.

The flaws:
Evolution says that the organism needs only enough brain or knowledge to become smart. For instance, we are evolved enough that we can do math and other problems, as well as retain knowledge well. The earlier civilizations, by evolution’s standards, were dumb. But here we meet a conflict. An evolutionist took an Indian never in contact with the civilized world, and gave him the best education. In 10 years, he was a world-class scholar. See a problem? There is. The Indian should have never of been advanced enough to be so smart. Here we meet the first problem. But we meet even more going back farther. You see, we find a mysterious link that seems to be missing. Suspicious? Why, yes, yes it is. But we will still find more problems, you see. We find a point in time where we were dumb, and were still meeting the needs we required to stay alive. May I ask why we have knowledge today to have technologically advanced minds, but other animals don’t. If there is a chance for anything to become an intelligent being, than why don’t we see more? Why just us? No answers? But more then that, evolution claims we evolved, working our way up in the “system” until we are here today. If we came from fish, why did we come from them? And if we did, why are fish still here if they are inferior. After all, fish get eaten, we don’t, the fish shouldn’t be here right now, we should have stomped them out through “natural selection”. You see, evolution is just a theory. Science is a fact. I see evolution taught in all sorts of ways, but always in schools. Especially in public schools, but especially in science class. But why when science is out of comprehension and cannot be proven? Like I said, just a theory. Now lets look at some more arguments for God. We start with:

A creationist’s viewpoint:
We believe that God created the earth in six days, taking the seventh to rest, as it says in the Bible. There was nothing before earth. He created the heavens and the earth. This includes the universe. No Big Bang. We believe that God is the intelligent designer behind it all. Why? Because we can see from history that there were people, they came from somewhere. And that God is the one who made us, besides there are miracles out there. What else could it be? But the most influencing reason is because we know that Jesus died for us. Ancient records show it. And, if you look, the Bible showed scientific principles before they were even known. We know the Bible existed for many years before accurate scientific principles even came out. Let me show you some,

What backs it:
These are some scientific principles the Bible talked about before they were known to be true.
An ancient belief was that all stars were the same. But the Bible says different:

Another was that air was weightless. Really, we know differently now and we can also see that the Bible says differently:

Another belief was that mountains were only on earth, I mean, no one went down that far. They thought there were monsters down there. But Jonah, when he was disobedient to God, was swallowed by a fish, and he got to know what was down there, and here is his account:

And again we had the belief that the earth was flat. But again the Bible had the answer:

And believe it or not guys, there was also a belief that there were six thousand stars. But again, the bible had the answer:

And finally, if you are getting sick of all the quote tags, we have one more. People didn’t know that there was a water cycle. They didn’t know where it came from. But wait, it’s a bird, it’s a plane, NO, it’s the Bible to the rescue!

Can you believe that!? The Bible had it all along. If only we had heeded it. You see guys, God is greater then we, He created this earth, I think He knows how it works. When you put together a bike, by the time you are done, you know how it works. It just blows my mind guys!

You know guys, there is just a great example I love to use. Suppose you found a watch, it was sitting on a rock, the first you would ask is not, where did the rock come from, you would ask, where did the watch come from. Apparently, the watch did not get there on it’s own. It must have had some designer. However, what about the rock? Where did it come from? It didn’t get there on its own as you can imagine. But the first thing you would think is, it’s been there forever. But I know differently. “Something” happened. No, I am not trying to freak you out, but something had to happen in order for it to get there, but back to the watch. Let me propose to you, that the watch was there all along to, it just developed there, all by itself. Now most people would find this ludicrous. But why? Okay fine, I will change that to, it evolved from a tree. Now I would be on my way to a metal institution. You see, if I told you that we came from a fish, it is quite believable. Now, why couldn’t we come from a tree? These arguments may seem dumb, but its all evidence that evolution is another theory that can’t be proven because it isn’t practical, nor is it right. I know it sounds like I am tearing down evolution a lot, but that is because I am. I give arguments on both sides to prove the case. Any people willing to discuss, I am not getting into any debates, or else I would have posted it there. No, I want a discussion. If you want to get into an argument, then fine, I like a minor debate, but nothing big guys. Okay? And please keep your calm during high-tension discussions. Thanks guys!