Circles Don't Exist? - a theory of existance

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Read Latest Entries..: (Post #42) by minimcmonkey on Sep 19 2008, 08:27 PM. (Line Breaks Removed)
Well, however close it may be, 179.9999999999999999999999999999999(recuring) is not quite 1So, there is such thing as a circle, well i think there is.
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Open Discussion > The Real World > Life Talk > Debates

Circles Don't Exist? - a theory of existance

galexcd
Ok well I got to thinking. A circle is just an infinite number of angles on a line right? If you think about different shapes, the more corners it has, the larger each angle would have to be for it to meet back. Well if a circle has an infinite number of sides, that means each angle gets infinitely close to 180°. Well this keeps on going 179.9, 179.99999999, until it hits 179.9-repeating. Well it is mathematically proven that .9-repeating, equals 1. This means every angle on a perfect circle is 180 degrees. Well if that is true, that means that circles are just strait lines.

I told my calculus teacher this, and he just told me that that is similar to the theory that disproves motion: In order to move, you have to pass through an infinite number of points, and that of course is impossible. But that theory is obviously wrong because we can all move still.

So what is your input trap-17 members? Do circles exist?

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ghostrider
A circle is simply an infinite-gon with all congruent sides. That proves it geometrically.

Reply

husker
Math is tricky. From what I was taught, a line is just a bunch of points. Now what is a point? It's hard to define. A circle is similar. It's easier if you just take math for what it is and don't think too deeply. But I do encourage thinking, and you bring up a good point. Hang on with me here as I give you my explanation, but remember I'm just in geometry. 179.99 etc. doesn't equal 180, and never will. It will come very close to 180, but it will never reach it. Therefore, a circle can't be a line because it never is 180. Just my ideas, you can think what you want.

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galexcd
Well if .9999-repeating equals 1 (and if you don't believe me, i've got an equation to prove this), 179.9-repeating must equal 180.

Edit:

Ok I've got the equation: (lets say underlined numbers mean repeating)

x=.9 - Set x to .9 repeating
10x=9.9 - Multiply both sides by 10
10x-x=9.9-x - Subtract X
9x=9 - x is .9 repeating, so subtracting it from 9.9 repeating gives you 9
x=1 - divide by nine
.9=1 - Substitute

Reply

husker
QUOTE(alex7h3pr0gr4m3r @ May 13 2007, 03:07 PM) *
Ok I've got the equation: (lets say underlined numbers mean repeating)

x=.9 - Set x to .9 repeating
10x=9.9 - Multiply both sides by 10
10x-x=9.9-x - Subtract X
9x=9 - x is .9 repeating, so subtracting it from 9.9 repeating gives you 9
x=1 - divide by nine
.9=1 - Substitute


.9 times 10 equals 9 not 9.9

Reply

TypoMage
Why are you guys talking all mathematicly? A circle is the thing that goes on top of stick figures. Or this ( o ) That is a circle I do not really understand all these numbers and stuff? laugh.gif

Reply

galexcd
QUOTE(husker @ May 13 2007, 02:19 PM) *
.9 times 10 equals 9 not 9.9


I guess you didn't bother to read this:
QUOTE(alex7h3pr0gr4m3r @ May 13 2007, 02:07 PM) *
(lets say underlined numbers mean repeating)

I couldn't do the little line over the number so i did it under.

.9 REPEATING equals 9.9 REPEATING.

Clear that up for you?

Reply

jlhaslip
QUOTE
A circle is just an infinite number of angles on a line right?


I would say not...

A circle is a collection of contiguous 'points' equal distance from a 'centre' point. I didn't Google this definition, just based it on my understanding of what a circle is/is not. "An infinite number of angles on a straight line"... does not compute, Will Robinson...

Reply

truefusion
QUOTE(alex7h3pr0gr4m3r @ May 13 2007, 04:24 PM) *
Well this keeps on going 179.9, 179.99999999, until it hits 179.9-repeating. Well it is mathematically proven that .9-repeating, equals 1.

It is not mathematically proven that .9-repeating equals 1. They tell you to round it off, which would equal 1. The only reason they tell you to round it off is so you won't have to write the number down. laugh.gif

QUOTE(alex7h3pr0gr4m3r @ May 13 2007, 05:07 PM) *
Ok I've got the equation: (lets say underlined numbers mean repeating)

x=.9 - Set x to .9 repeating
[1]10x=9.9 - Multiply both sides by 10
10x-x=9.9-x - Subtract X
9x=9 - x is .9 repeating, so subtracting it from 9.9 repeating gives you 9
x=1 - divide by nine
.9=1 - Substitute

I think you messed up somewhere in your equation... Like [1], don't you divide here instead of multiplying? Do the opposite?

 

 

 


Reply

husker
Well to continue my annoying streak biggrin.gif, I'd like to point out that it is mathematical impossible for .9 repeating to equal 1. It's like saying in the equation 2^x=y that y could equal 0.

Anyways, it's an interesting idea, but still not going for it.

Reply

Latest Entries

minimcmonkey
Well, however close it may be, 179.9999999999999999999999999999999(recuring) is not quite 1
So, there is such thing as a circle, well i think there is.

Reply

Mic-=Z
QUOTE(alex7h3pr0gr4m3r @ May 13 2007, 03:24 PM) *
Ok well I got to thinking. A circle is just an infinite number of angles on a line right? If you think about different shapes, the more corners it has, the larger each angle would have to be for it to meet back. Well if a circle has an infinite number of sides, that means each angle gets infinitely close to 180°. Well this keeps on going 179.9, 179.99999999, until it hits 179.9-repeating. Well it is mathematically proven that .9-repeating, equals 1. This means every angle on a perfect circle is 180 degrees. Well if that is true, that means that circles are just strait lines.

I told my calculus teacher this, and he just told me that that is similar to the theory that disproves motion: In order to move, you have to pass through an infinite number of points, and that of course is impossible. But that theory is obviously wrong because we can all move still.

So what is your input trap-17 members? Do circles exist?



OK.. first of all, it doesn't matter that 179.99repeating equals 180 or not, because mathmatically speaking a line cannot be curved. Logically a line cannot be curved. Ask a computer to draw a circle and you get a figure that looks like a circle but look closer and you have a bunch of .... EXACTLY ... straight lines, and last but not least light travels in straight lines.

Now to prove this take the circum of a circle and divide it into one million then take half of that and multiply it by the radius. Then take the same circle and use the "standard" Pie formula.... pretty close huh.

There are a lot of things to consider here... first and foremost the way they figure out the area of an object L x W for a square a square has a definate start and ending point because of the "line segments being straight, but now on a "circle" there is no definate start point..... even the diameter cannot be proporly measured due to the curved nature of it when it touches the circum of the circle, and the circum its self is a "curved" line, but where to you measure to, because it gets infinatly smaller, then you have the center point that noone can really figure out due to the same problem a point can always become smaller.

The real question is not do circles really exist but why do we keep thinking they do, and that we know how to figure them out, because to put it simply we don't

Remember pie was figured by the relationship of the diameter to the circum of a circle, which is a ratio, not a fraction, yes they can be the same, BUT ! ! A ratio can have a fraction in it ie.... 7/22 could accually be 7.000001/22, or 7-1/1000000/22.0 , try it out, if you do this pie stops but the question remains, How can it be measured to verify, of course that's assuming you do not believe in Logic, Math, or light, and profoundly accept that there are true circles.


Just a thought >>> Z

Reply

FreedomOverdose
as previously said, math is very tricky. You can't always apply the following statement (to be honest, can't remember the property's name in english tongue.gif)
a=b
b=c
___
a=c

So, you cannot mathematically proovee that 0.9- equals 1. If so what would 1-0.00000(infinite zeros)0001 be??
see, this is veery tricky wink.gif

edit: so, let's suppose that circles really are straight lines. How can You explain that a circle(a straight line as supposed) does never overlap with a straight line? In fact, is tangent or it intersects it. This leads that a straight line NEVER overlaps with another straight line, which is wrong =>circles aren't just straight lines!

Reply

Erdemir
QUOTE(jlhaslip @ May 14 2007, 05:00 AM) *
A circle is a collection of contiguous 'points' equal distance from a 'centre' point.

I agree with this. And one more thing we can describe point as everything and nothing.

This is from wikipedia
QUOTE
In geometry, topology and related branches of mathematics a spatial point describes a specific point within a given space that consists of neither volume, area, length, nor any other higher dimensional analogue.


Point has no volume, no area, no length....
Point is undefinable, and a circle is collection of points (not lines), so circle is also undefinable. biggrin.gif

Your opinion will be clear when you can describe what the point is. laugh.gif

Reply

Nabb
QUOTE
A circle is the set of points in a plane that are equidistant from a given point O


Would help to define a circle correctly wink.gif

And by the way, the proof that 0.999... = 1 does bring up a point
Let ...999 = x (an infinite string of nines).
10x = ...9990
x - 10x = 9
x = -1
... this forms the basis of integers in computing!
(no, I doubt that, but it is a striking resemblance!)

Reply



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Circles Don't Exist? - a theory of existance



 

 

 

 

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