Read Latest Entries..: (Post #36) by msdeeva on Jan 21 2006, 11:06 PM. (Line Breaks Removed)
QUOTE(no9t9 @ Jan 9 2006, 03:57 PM)Whenever I hear that US soilders got killed in Iraq, I know a some people can't help thinking that they deserve what they get. I feel sorry for those who have died, especially for their families. The saddest part is that the war was started for all the wrong reasons and the people who died in Iraq are those who least deserve it.To be honest.&... read more.
well , this news attracted me , 12 american died in iraq yesterday. 8 of them are soldiers while 4 are american civilians in a black hawk helicopter crash., till now no one really know what was the cause of the crash...according to army it was due to bad weather , while other reports says it was a military action from the iraqi patriots against the us troops
i posted this topic because i just don't know why americans insist on exsiting in iraq , dsepite all the useless loss in troops and money??? i think americans lost this war and even what they said they occupied iraq for...the mass destruction weapons issue , proved to be words of liars...so , what are they waiting for??? why just they retreat??
if i were able to talk with george bush , i would tell him " georgi...you lost your war , and soon...you will loss your army"
What are you talking about? True, while there may not be any apparent motives for remaining in Iraq (aside from keeping the civilians safe so that the previous leaders don't move back in and start mass-executions on the basis of treason), we are hardly losing the war. We won the "war" easily. The war has been over for a long, long time. Now it's just a matter of cleaning up resistance. Bombings aren't war - they're terrorist attacks, and that's what is so dangerous. Noone can tell if the person walking up to them is a civilian or a suicide bomber in disguise, until they flip the switch, that is.
In any case, we are hardly "losing our army" in Iraq. This is, in fact, one of the mildest wars that the United States has ever fought. The casualties are in the thousands. In fact, according to this article, the total troops lost in Iraq is currently at about 2,178 while the total wounded is at around 15,955 while, according to this website, there are about 160,000 troops stationed in Iraq. So, overall, there have been about 1.25% of the troops stationed in Iraq killed, and 10% wounded. Considering that that this war has lasted over 2 years, that is a very reasonable number. Keep in mind that is this is only the number of troops in Iraq - hardly the entire U.S. Army.
It seems like all you hear on the news anymore is that soldiers died in Iraq. People act like it is a really big deal, which it is but you have to realize that the number that have died is a reasonable number for any war. During both World Wars and the Vietnam War countless thousands were lost verses a couple thousands. Also, the wars mentioned were not optional you were drafted into the military. While the Iraq War was optional. These people understood what it meant to go to Iraq so you can not always blame Bush for their deaths, but since it was optional for them to go they are heros.
Whenever I hear that US soilders got killed in Iraq, I know a some people can't help thinking that they deserve what they get. I feel sorry for those who have died, especially for their families. The saddest part is that the war was started for all the wrong reasons and the people who died in Iraq are those who least deserve it.
To be honest. If Bush (both jr and sr), rumsfeld, etc. all got killed in Iraq, I think they would deserve it. Certain members of the Bush administration, in my opinion, should be charged with war crimes. They continually break international laws which they have signed, they commit acts of treason (revealing CIA agents), and more.
Some of these crimes are punishable by death. Yet, not only are these people not put in jail, they are still allowed to run the whole damn country. In addition to that, about half the american population wanted them back in office! It completely astounds me that Americans can even consider putting the Bush administration back into office (but it happened).
The bush administration has done nothing for America except make more enemies, destroy the economy, and create a huge rift within the america itself. Good work.
It is a war after all, so there are bound to be casualties. Probablly we have to ask a few questions. Are the casualties worth it? What is the war for anyway? If we think about it, what the war is for, and the benefits to be gained from it, or the benefits to be gained from not going to war compared with that to be gained from going to war, I think it is not worth fighting and the deaths are hardly worth it.
First Bush may be going there for the oil, for the ideology (which is to assume the role of a superpower, extent spheres of influence and show it is in control), or maybe as the Press things on the assumption of defence and flawed intelligence.
If it were for the oil, it may be worth the fight. However, USA has enough reserves to keep itself running for another 100 years IF and only IF the Bush administration cuts down on its cost spending. However, with the Iraq war, spending has increased and its quite silly to get more oil just to spend it away, though probably less than 50% is spend away.
However, at the moment it seems there are no concrete signs of US taking over all of Iraq's oil rigs for themselves or anything close to that sort. As such, I firmly believe the war is a stupid idea and should not have been fault. Besides, no amount of economics and empirical calculation can account for the emotional and psychological hurt of the soldiers loved ones.
Well, if the war WAS intended for "taking over" oil rigs, I'm pretty sure that, with Bush's current popularity polls in mind, the citizens of the U.S.A. would be screaming for his head on a silver platter if he would actually invade a Middle-Eastern country and start a war just to seize control of oil rigs.
The Army went in pleanty well-equipped, but there were things that they did not expect that hindered the outcome they had hoped for. Blinding sandstorms, for example.
However, at the moment it seems there are no concrete signs of US taking over all of Iraq's oil rigs for themselves or anything close to that sort.
Wrong! (yes, with exclamation mark but no personal offense meant ... and after I've written this post I'd dare to remove the ! since it's not the US government taking over the oil but names like Halliburton, Exxon, Shell, to name a few even though others are involved as well)
Before Gulf War III, the iraqi oil industry was completely state-owned; after Gulf War II it came nearly to an end due to international sanctions against Iraq; since 1996, Iraq was allowed to export limited amounts of oil in exchange for food, medical supplies and other things needed to serve humanitarian needs, since 1999 Iraq got permission to export unlimited amounts of oil to serve humanitarian needs (and humanitarian needs only...). As a result of this, the average iraqi citizen's living conditions improved drastically. One of the first bills passed by the US-installed Iraqi interim (?) Government opened the iraqi oil market to foreign corporations, enabling them to buy tax-free (the latter might change in future) control over iraqi oil; iraqi resistance however is somewhat successfull at stopping oil production, it is currently at about three quarters of the pre-war level (fluctuating since Iraqi resistance forces are somewhat successfull when it comes to disturbing oil production). Before the war, US officials expected to be able to pay for the invasion (study recent reports ... the people don't see anything of your liberation) with iraqi oil; the estimated costs to the USA range between some hundred million dollars (direct war spendings) and several billion dollars (including estimates on how economy would have evolved without the war). well, right now the iraqi oil industry does not even support the iraqi people and the multi-national corporations involved to not earn as much as expected.
One question: Which sane government would give a source of money and power into foreign hands? With the iraqi oil reserves under your control you'd have a huge influence on today's economy. What do you expect what the oil market is going to look like in ten years? [well, the worst scenario in which I personally do not believe is that the world's oil reserves will be somewhere near zero by then ... I'd say it'll last about another twenty years even though the price for it will drastically increase unless another fuel is introduced on a large scale within the next few years]
Well that would mean all the more, the war is a complete waste of resources, time and the cons are more than the pros.
Whatever it is, war can never be a good thing. History repeats itself. What in the world was Bush thinking.
Yet then again, the loss is one the US can handle well. Even though the government may now be on a huge budget deficiet, the economy is doing well (partly because of the war) which means that though there is a huge deficit, in real terms, it is only a small percentage of GDP. In that sense the American government is doing very well. Economically at least. Public opinion is another issue
The Army went in pleanty well-equipped, but there were things that they did not expect that hindered the outcome they had hoped for. Blinding sandstorms, for example.
well ... they've led a war in pretty much this area a little more than 10 years before they've gone there again and it's not as if there was no enforcement of the northern and southern no-fly-zones in the time between Gulf War II and III, including bombs being dropped on iraqi military targets (the air forces did not have as much trouble recognizing the difference between military and civilian targets as they had within the last three years, for whatever reason). Not expecting stuff like sandstorms in a desert is somewhat crazy...
liauce: Bush was not thinking, that's the problem...: "I had doubts about attacking Iraq but my higher father told me to..." right, it did the economy well ... but what good did it do the average american citizen, the average iraqi citizen? None. Just about every militant group and organization now has one reason more to attack US facilities or the USA itself; the average iraqi citizen lives in constant fear of being hit by a bomb (placed by the resistance or the occupational forces, they both do it; dropped by the USA or UK) or assassination through US or UK forces. Half a year ago the death toll among Iraqis was estimated to be 100,000 to 125,000 in the year after the war was officially declared to be won (that was in May 2003; http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ does only count those that have been mentioned in the news or official reports and died within 6 hours after an attack). During the Kosovo War the way this figure has been estimated [the country was divided into, I'm not sure, 33 districts and in each district some thousand households/families have been questioned as to whether they've lost a member and how many members they've lost in the time in question and how they died ... I'm mirroring the site I got this from to my computer and I'll post a link when I stumble upon this article, it was pretty interesting...) was considered perfectly legitimate by US officials. The Iraqi version did not return any comments ("We do not know of this study"). One thing you have to keep in mind about this figure: It only represents the number of people killed and does not make a difference between civilian and military targets but if you look at reports about US attacks in Iraq, the US usually says "X terrorists have been killed in an assault in city Blah", news agency and resistance reports say "X+some people have been killed in an assault in city Blah, Y of those were women and Z children" [children and women usually don't participate in man-stuff in patriarchaic (sp?) countries; fighting is man-stuff in all major muslim societies (though there are some muslim scholars who propagate equal rights; those are, however, a slim minority)] ...so with the invasion itself and the time elapsed since this study, the body count is somewhere around the 200,000. Before the invasion, President Hussein was accused of having slaughtered about 300,000 of his own people. Within all his time in power, several decades. The Coalition of the Willing needed less than two years to kill just as many...
What are you talking about? True, while there may not be any apparent motives for remaining in Iraq (aside from keeping the civilians safe so that the previous leaders don't move back in and start mass-executions on the basis of treason),
of course the USA forces are still in iraq to keep the iraqi people safe...to prevent the so called "terrorists" from reaching them , the american troops imprison hundreds of innocent iraqi people everynow and then. they send them nice gifts in the form of really large bombs and strikes that produce fantasy red colors upon exploding so , amusing nice iraqi children before they are burnt alive "wOoOow , wish i were there" . and for luxurity , the US troops made a 5-star resort for them named "abu - ghreb" i'm sure you heard about it , in which mass torture , humiliation and mass rape is performed and everyone is just happy ... accidentally, i have really nice pics from there:
Notice from BuffaloHELP:
Warning! The following images are controversial and turned to links to protect some forum users. You are to view at your discretion.
Can't you see??! Everyone is just happy and having real fun!!
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis @ Jan 9 2006, 04:56 PM)
we are hardly losing the war. We won the "war" easily. The war has been over for a long, long time.
of course you won the war easily , because simply there was no army to fight the american army in the first place...10 years of pain , hunger and siege against iraq were enough to leave no more than sick , weak and unarmed people ... what an honor , what a humanity and what a courageous victory
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis @ Jan 9 2006, 04:56 PM)
Now it's just a matter of cleaning up resistance. Bombings aren't war - they're terrorist attacks, and that's what is so dangerous. Noone can tell if the person walking up to them is a civilian or a suicide bomber in disguise, until they flip the switch, that is.
A rate of 2 american soldiers killed EVERYday , thousands of millions of dollars lost "that could have been used for health care services in the US , fight unemployment , funding UN anti-AIDS measures in africa or even to reduce global pollution ", alot of american mothers losing thier sons and daughters , 2000 soldier lost only in the 1st two or three years while in vietnam was really less than that "about 200 or so" with another thousands of wounded and handicapped soldiers ....of course bombings are nothing...specially when you know that some american reports said there is about 2 million bomber in iraq...
At the end , i wish happy days for the beloved american soldiers in iraq .... i'm sure iraqi people will be glade to do "whatever it takes" to make them so..
Whenever I hear that US soilders got killed in Iraq, I know a some people can't help thinking that they deserve what they get. I feel sorry for those who have died, especially for their families. The saddest part is that the war was started for all the wrong reasons and the people who died in Iraq are those who least deserve it.
To be honest. If Bush (both jr and sr), rumsfeld, etc. all got killed in Iraq, I think they would deserve it. Certain members of the Bush administration, in my opinion, should be charged with war crimes. They continually break international laws which they have signed, they commit acts of treason (revealing CIA agents), and more.
Some of these crimes are punishable by death. Yet, not only are these people not put in jail, they are still allowed to run the whole damn country. In addition to that, about half the american population wanted them back in office! It completely astounds me that Americans can even consider putting the Bush administration back into office (but it happened).
The bush administration has done nothing for America except make more enemies, destroy the economy, and create a huge rift within the america itself. Good work.
While I don't feel they deserve it, I do put the blame on the U.S. government. Most of these soldiers are young, and want to make a better life for themselves through the various opportunities that the military provides. I don't believe that 100 percent of them know what they're getting involved in, nor do they understand the premise behind American occupation in Iraq. I think they are brainwashed into thinking a certain way, and therefore I feel sorry for them. As far as this "war" goes, I believe the soldiers are just pawns in Bush's sick and twisted game of World Domination. I cannot wait until the next election. Thank the Lord for the two-term rule. Whoever came up with that is a genius!
as you like , neither do i want to make this topic a religious one... i just had to correct what you claimed about my religion... anyway if you or anyone heard anything or want to know about islam , i will be glade to recieve a pvt about that..
Well, I don't want to divert this thread from the topic any further than it is, and frankly I don't feel like quoting each one of your passages to give a smart remark, but it's obvious you know what you're talking about, although as an "Athiest" of sorts, I don't really believe in religion, now matter how old, fancy, or kind it and the people in it may be.
Peace on everyone here, cerebral stasis ... your reply is tough , but i'd like to thank you for arousing this discussion about my religion. It is my honor and my duty to tell you as much as I can, whatever you say ... in our holy book we were ordered to have patience in explaining our religion and answering others
Islam is based on absolute truth. So it means that I cannot and must not lie about it. The Quran tells us that believers must always tell the truth and stand firm for justice even if it is against ourselves and our families. The prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, told us that if anyone is a liar then he is not a believer. also ,we have original recorded sources of our religion: The Quran , and Teachings of Muhammad.
This is a unique part of Islam, not available in any other ancient religions.
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis)
I got it from the way Islam is shoved in my face everywhere I turn
why don't you try to give your ears and mind for a time to a muslim??? i think if you want to know about islam you should a muslim about this and discuss with him what you see and hear and then decide what to think... doesn't muslims as catholics or jews have the right to explain their point of view?
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis)
Ouch. I'm sorry. I will never know your pain
why say so??? have religions ever been a means of having pain??? all religions aims for upgrading and strengthning the soul and in islam which is the last precious stone in the chain of religions sent by god to all hummanity , is the ultimate way and law for your whole life... islam is a way in life not in the mosque and end out of it like in christianity...islam teach us how to deal with other religions , with the poors , relation between man and woman and every single detail from the creator of you , me and the whole universe. why you think there should be paim??? let me say ... there is just alot of proudness and happiness that i was chosed to be a muslim and to enjoy this bless. if you ask any true muslim , what's the greatest bless you have? he won't say money , health or whatever... he says "being a muslim"
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis)
Funny, I thought "Islam", in English, meant "terrorist."
howcome that a religion , its believers salut with "peace on you" , a religion calling you to respect women and treat them like truely human , order the rich to give the poors from thier money , order its believers to respect animals , do you know that our prophet mohammed piece be upon him teaches us that you are awarded by god if you feed an animal., muslims in thier entire history when they ruled earth made the greatest stories of mercy and hummanity and i can tell you if you like..
Simply , Islam means:
The total surrender, in complete submission and obedience to the One True God in sincerity and through that comes peace. The peace that can only come when the created one (us) has surrendered to God in total compliance and submission.
and the word "muslim" in arabic Instead of using the suffix "er" as is done in the English language to name the one who is performing the actions; such as: talk-er, walk-er, think-er, etc., the Arabic language uses a prefix on the word to show you who is doing the action or the verb such as, adhan = mu-adhan, salli = mu-salli, safr = mu-safr, Islam = Mu-slim. being a Muslim means that we are attempting to do God's Will on earth instead of our own.
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis)
I don't see how killing one innocent person is like killing every innocent person on the planet. More terrorist technical innuendo?
this is an explaination of a statementin the wholy Qouran , it means that if killed an innocent humman is so great a wrong and evil deed and it doesn't differ from killing all ppl on earth cuz God created man an honored him and made him the responsible for earth , so killing God's honored creature is not tolerated or accepted in islam.
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis)
And who was wandering around in the desert under a hot sun when God (Allah) "came to him
...at this specific moment no one was there or cared ... the truth is that Mohammed is the one who cared not for his people or his family ... but for the hummanity and future of man in this life. he cared for me as much as he cared for you and what will we do when we meets God in later life and asks us "why didn't you follow my messengers and prophets?" Allah chosed him to be the final messenger to all hummans , to guide them and tell them how to prepare for this moment which is the end of all this life.
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis)
He really said that? Well, now that he is dead, I suppose it doesn't apply anymore.
no sir , first , islam is about following God's order and if mohammed died , God doesn't die. and for mohammed , his orders and directions doesn't die with his dead and as in Qouran.
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis)
Wait... Wouldn't believing in Jesus and the prophets/apostles make you a Christian, not a Muslim?
let me make my point perfectly clear: ISLAM is the Way of all of the prophets from the first (Adam, peace be upon him) to Muhammad, peace be upon him. They all called the people to submit their free choice that Allah had given them to the Will of Allah. That is what "Islam" is really all about.
When the people begin to corrupt and change the message, they give some name to it that makes it distinct for them. Usually they chose a noun such as a person, place or thing. The examples are many, but let me mention the Hindus, from the nation of Hind, the Jews from the tribe of Judah, the Christians from The Christ, the Buddhists from the name of their Buddha. All of these are "nouns" right? So that is where they took the names.
Islam is from Allah, The Creator and Sustainer of all that exists. As such, it is for Him Alone to command and direct His creation and He Alone is responsible for what He will accept and what He will not accept. It is also for Him Alone to decree what is good and what is bad and He must be the One to show the right path in all things.
Everything in the life of the creations of Allah, especially for those who have choices to make (us), must be dictated and clarified by the One who Created everything in the fist place. We understand from this that Islam must be a complete and total way of living, explaining everything in the life from beginning to end and from birth until death.
Islam is careful to remind us that it not a religion to be paid mere lip service; rather it is an all-encompassing way of life that must be practiced continuously for it to be Islam.
There are other injunctions and commandments which concern virtually all facets of one's personal, family and civic life. These include such matters as diet, clothing, personal hygiene, interpersonal relations, business ethics, responsibilities towards parents, spouse and children, marriage, divorce and inheritance, civil and criminal law, fighting in defense of Islam, relations with non-Muslims, and so much more.
In conclusion, we are forced to realize that ISLAM is a complete way of life for the human being. Everything is covered in Islam from birth to death to live in the complete submission to the Will of the One Who Created man in the first place.
QUOTE(Cerebral Stasis)
The reason they don't get along is because both Muslims and Christians have a firm belief that they are correct and everyone else is wrong, and everyone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with their beliefs is evil and will burn forever in Hell. The reason they don't get along is because they are too alike from them to understand/accept.
Freedom of belief is guaranteed in Islam. It should be very clear that Islam tolerates not only other faiths but even its enemies. This is stated clearly in the Qur'an: "God forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them, for God loves those who are just."
History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faiths. for example the great leader and second Caliph, Umar, entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam guaranteed freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city. In fact, so careful was Umar in setting an example for his people that he not only went to a church to pray, he prayed outside in the courtyard, lest his followers after his death be tempted to convert the church into a mosque.
The reason they don't get along is because both Muslims and Christians have a firm belief that they are correct and everyone else is wrong, and everyone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with their beliefs is evil and will burn forever in Hell. The reason they don't get along is because they are too alike from them to understand/accept.
Iraq, the major oil producer with the world's third largest oil reserves introduced new rules
to save fuel. The government ordered that from wednesday in Bahdad, cars with odd number could
take to the streets on odd days and that with even number on the even days. Motorists are
frustrated and Taxi drivers are angry since this will decrease their income to the half. ....
ok, one thing before I post the story: Usually, I don't refer to chinese official sources
because it's often hard to validate those through other sources. In this case however, I was
lucky to stumble over a news post with nearly identical content on the german press agency's
(dpa) website , which has already been replaced by more recent news, so I feel safe to refer to the
chinese news agency Xinhua. According to this (1) article, QUOTE " US forces surrounded the
village of Mazraa near Baiji and detained five children under 10 years old, calling on the....
This just in from the yahoo news, the article is posted here.... QUOTE 33 Die in Attacks on
Iraq Security Forces By SINDBAD AHMED, Associated Press Writer 39 minutes ago Suicide bombers
struck a police headquarters, an army base and a hospital around Mosul on Sunday, killing 33 people
in a setback to efforts to rebuild the northwestern city's police force that was riven by
intimidation from insurgents seven months ago. At least 14 people were killed in attacks elsewhere
in Iraq, including a U.S. soldier whose convoy was hit by a roadside bomb in Baghdad and s....
Credit: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/default.jsp Apparently Wed, about 41 bodies were found
beheaded or riddled with bullets were found in two different places throughout Iraq. Officials
haven't put out any more info. This is truly very scary to me even though I don't have
that much sympathy.....
