rayzoredge
Dec 10 2007, 07:18 PM
I thought there was going to be a system build category under hardware... 
Core components: QUOTE The system costs $1658.88. Just wondering if there are any suggestions to it without raising the bar too much on the price tag. Also wondering how there would be a good way to calculate how much voltage would be needed to run a machine... I think 620W will suffice, but I'm not dead sure. I jumped up to quad core simply because it was only $50-70 over the price of the dual core E6600 and lagged behind on the RAM because I didn't feel like paying $300+ for Corsair Dominators. Can anyone vouch for Dominators against lesser RAM like the Patriot Extremes that I've selected? Is the 1066MHz clock THAT much better than the 800MHz clock? (I don't think it's worth the price hike for slight performance increases... this build is based on the best bang for the buck. Then again, I have no real-world application... it's been years since I've built a PC.)
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truefusion
Dec 10 2007, 09:50 PM
You can reduce the price by about $150 if you go with this Centurion 5 case. You can reduce the price again by about $140 by going with this Athlon 64 X2 5600+ and get more gigahertz. With the savings from these items, you can get yourself a better motherboard with faster RAM: Gigabyte 790FX and DDR2 1066 (it may not be 4GBs, but it's faster). A Dual-core can perform better than a Quad-core, all it needs is more speed, etc, since all these cores do is take up a piece of the pre-programmed speed. I'm quite sure the hardware i suggested will get you what you want with a bang for the buck.  Although i don't know how to calculate how much it is required for the PSU, my friend has similar specs to what i suggested, and he uses 500W. But if you search around, you could probably find a recommended amount.
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dre
Dec 10 2007, 11:21 PM
Do you have some advanced sound system set up for your computer? If not, then don't bother spending extra money on the sound card. Also, for the RAM, I'd stick with either Corsair or OCZ for the best performance, compatibility, and stability.
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rayzoredge
Dec 12 2007, 04:41 PM
I guess this build wasn't exactly best bang for the buck... since I did a lot of bumping up of components for a little more... and all those "little more"'s added up a bit to the final price. Quad-cores are very comparable to dual-cores IMO, just from looking at benchmarks... but wouldn't having more cores result in being able to do more simultaneously? Such as loading up startup programs and services for bootup? Wouldn't that be worth the $50-70 hike? What's the real-world take on this? I chose Intel too because I like gaming, but I also like being able to work with Photoshop and music and in the future video, and I believe Intel for some reason trumps AMD processors by a bit when it comes to encoding and decoding processes. But I'm interested in what AMD has coming up for its quad core... I'm wondering what the performance comparison is between an 800MHz clock and a 1066MHz clock as far as real-time experience. I know that Windows XP has some sort of problem dealing with 4GB, which would make it a waste of money to throw that much RAM into an XP machine, but isn't there some sort of patch or hack or fix for it? I also love sound... so for me to limit the quality of my music and gaming experience by the sound card doesn't seem very appealing to me to shave off a few bucks. Speakers will definitely be added; however, this is just the core system listed here.
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Saint_Michael
Dec 12 2007, 07:22 PM
rayzor rayzor haven't you learn from the posts and topics that the most expensive stuff is not always the best, and lets see how I can top the recommendations from the previous posts and save your just a bit more money. Remember that building a PC is all about compatibility and getting what you pay for, I spent about 3 hours going through parts just to make sure the computer I get works for what I pay for. Computer CaseCase #1Case #2Case #3Of course if none of these are to your liking this list of cases listed by rating and for less then $100 would help you decide. ProcessorsYeah like truefusion said you don't need a quad to run a gaming system dual core is plenty for what you need, and although I can't save a ton of money for the processor, I did find one that has quite a lot of power for its price. Processor #1Of course if money is no option then you can get a seemingly identical processor for twice the cost <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115002" target="_blank"> Processor #2</a> RAMTo me RAM is RAm and as long as it works for the right machine then I am happy, case in point first off your Patriot brand I found it for cheaper, and funny enough if I had sets to get 4 gigs it would be somewhat cost effective. You know why? because hte most you will ever need is 2-3 gigs and that being said you have your self a spare set just in case your first set gets trashed. Either way its about $60 dollars cheaper. RAM #1Now I will have to agree with dre that the COSAIR RAM is good ot have case in point although just a bit more expensive then Ram Set #1, it still is undred $100. Although I am bit surprise dre didn't mention anything about kingston, and I think this is the right company then they are awesome in the memory department especially in the USB arena. RAM #2Since were are talking about COSAIR here is a set from them $100 even RAM #3Cooling DevicesYou might as well drop them from the list since they are not really necessary, and if you plan to overclock your system you might as well look into water cooling as that would be a bit more effective then adding fans. Also processors usually come with a fan so that second one really isn't needed. MotherboardDepending on which processor you go with usually you want to stick with the motherboard that they recommend as they are the most compatible, but it seems that some people had some problems with this one. So with te money you saved so far from everything else you could spend a bit more on a nice motherboard, and just a reminder since I have listed a Intel processor you need a Intel motherboard but if your going the AMD route then start with the suggestion from truefusion. Also before I forget even more usually when building a computer you start with the motherboard or the processor that way you will have the best compatibility with the rest of the hardware. Motherboard to look atHard DriveOnly comment I have is do you plan to blow threw 1TB of hard drive space? If not drop one of the hard drives. Power SupplyFirst off you are way under powered for the set up you have already you would need to push it to 700-750 watts to keep that system stable, but since we have calmed it down a bit a 650 watt would be sufficient for your needs. Also remember the higher the efficiency percentage the better the distribution of power through out the system and so I would recommend one of these power supplies. Also make sure whatever case you buy doesn't come with a power supply as they are usually under powered when building a computer, and make sure the power supply fits the form factor of the case as well, forgot to mention that earlier with the motherboard. Just Remember if you get a ATX or Micro ATX motherboard make sure your case and power supply is ATX as well, and so here is a list of power supplies I would somewhat recommend, just because your build could change and you might need less or might need more. Power Supply ListCD-ROM DrivesThose are universal along with floppy drives just remember you want speed over anything else the max being 52x, and so if you can get a good distribution of that speed across the board then your fine so double check the speeds before making a final purchase. GFX CardFor someone who wants a gaming machine you don't have a graphics card in that list; as for the graphic card that really depends on where you want to go then 8000 series are top of the line and very expensive, the 7000 are just as good and more affordable if you have a budget, and if you really can't spend that much money then the 6000 series is the way to go. As for memory the more the better that way the gfx card won't rely on system memory. So I recommend one these based on what I read. Card #1Card #2Card #3Card #4Sound CardLike dre said if you plan to have a sound system connected to your computer to fully get into the system then its the way to go, if not then you can drop it off your list. MonitorFlat Panel LCD is the way to go they are expensive so bear that in mind as you choose the right size and usually 20-21" would be a recommendation in the gamer arena but if you want bigger then 22" is it. I would say at most you would save about $400-$500 tops with the hardware that I compared to with the list you posted and everything else that you forgot to mention would cut that savings in half give or take $100.
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PlugComputers
Dec 16 2007, 03:39 PM
I have a few comments regarding Saint Michael's comments that you may want to take into consideration. He is very right about going with the E6750 processor, its dual core, and very easily overclocked. Quad core is a little over rated right now, and by the time it comes into practical use, prices will be down significantly. The new line of Core 2 Duo processors that the E6750 is part of also features 1066Mhz FSB's. This makes a difference when multitasking. Just make sure you have a motherboard that supports 1066Mhz. And as far as your RAM, Saint Michael, he was looking for 4GB, both of those 2 suggestions were 2GB sets. I recently upgraded my own system (yesterday, actually) to 4GB of RAM. I went with the Corsair XMS DDR2 800 DHX modules in a 2x2Gb setup. There is a huge difference, especially in Vista. I'm not sure if you're planning on running Vista, but if you are and have 4GB of memory, its much better to go with a 64-bit version of Vista. If you install 4GB of memory in a 32-bit Vista, it only recognizes about 3.5GB. As for your cooling, unless you realllllly know what you're doing, I wouldn't throw extra money into liquid cooling. This seems to be a fairly standard system setup, and sufficient air cooling would work fine. Invest in a decent Zalman CPU cooler, and a couple extra case fans and your temps should be perfectly fine. A motherboard is very important when buying your system, because if the specs do not match all your component speeds, spending extra on some of those other components will be pointless. I have always been faithful to ASUS and Gigabyte motherboards in the past, and have never been disappointed. They are a bit more expensive, but you do get what you pay for when it comes to a mobo. The ASUS P5W-DH is probably one of the best models out there for Core 2 Duo with 1066Mhz FSB. I agree with the fact that something in the 650W-700W power supply range would work well for your system. The link Saint Michael provided with power supplies are all priced between $75-100, and if you're looking for reliable power in that wattage range, lets face it, $75-100 on a power supply isn't going to last. I would recommend sticking to brands such as Thermaltake, Silverstone, and Antec. They are reliable PSU's, that still provide a good value. Also won't have to replace them in 6 months like some other cheap models. I would recommend 2 out of the 4 graphics cards Saint Michael recommended, both 8 series nvidia cards would be fine. The thing about the 8 series cards is that they support DirectX 10, and the older 7 series cards do not. In the future, when everything is DX10, you'll be glad you went with an 8 series card. Couldn't agree more with the sound card recommendations you have been getting, unless you have some special surround sound speak setup on your computer, the motherboard integrated sound is perfectly fine. It's actually getting pretty decent these days, and you don't need to drop another $150 into a sound card to get something decent. Happy hunting on your system rayzor, if you have any questions feel free to ask. I have been at this custom system building thing for a long time with Plug Computers and I would be happy to help. Your system setup looks solid, just make a few tweaks and you'll have a perfecting gaming rig for around $1600.00. Let us know what you end up with!
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dre
Dec 16 2007, 10:46 PM
QUOTE Although I am bit surprise dre didn't mention anything about kingston, and I think this is the right company then they are awesome in the memory department especially in the USB arena. Well I though about it, but Kingston focuses more on stability than anything else. Since the case here is for top performance, Corsair provides better performance than Kingston. Also, Kingston RAM that's fast is really expensive for some reason, at least in my area. I found Corsair to be the most compatible RAM on the market, one of the fastest, and 2nd only to Kingston in stability.
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PlugComputers
Dec 16 2007, 11:20 PM
I agree with dre that Corsair is the best overall choice for memory. 1st in my book as far as performance and longevity. With Corsair you can throw it in about any system and it'll work for you, which is nice, seems to be compatible with about anything.
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Saint_Michael
Dec 17 2007, 12:24 AM
Now don't get me wrong on that I just wanted to mention the fact their were some other good brands out there. Of course I picked neither for my computer and my computer works efficiently as it was build for; however, on the power supply thing I have to defend my reasoning especially on the fact the power supply I paid for was $40. To back up my reasons I recommend reading this article on power supplies, especially about the power supply supply efficiency, of course I know everyone knows where I am going with this. Also it all depends on a set up I think it would be impractical to spend $300 on a power supply and it doesn't last the month, remember the more expensive it is doesn't always mean it will better. Of course if you plan to over clock your computer I would suspect that your not going to drop that kind of money on a power supply and it blowing up the moment you turn the computer on. Don't get me wrong Plug you been doing this far longer then I have so I know that you know what your talking about, and if you look at hte $100-$200 power supplies you can see some are not as efficient as the $75-100 ones. Of course it how depends on how much you want to spend and yeah if I had the money I think I would sink in bucket loads of it to have the ultimate build, but I had a budget and stuck to it the best I could.
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csp4.0
Dec 20 2007, 01:04 PM
I disagree with some of the people here, I would go with the quad core, because many games and applications are taking advantage of multiple cores, and core clock isn't the world! (i.e. a 3.0GHz Pentium D Dual-Core will NOT have better results than a 1.8GHz C2D) and also tests have shown that 16 AMD cores aren't as fast as 8 intel cores! anyway, why go with the aerocool PSU? the corsair one has more reliability! And why go with patriotExtreme RAM, when 2GB (2x1GB) Corsair XMS2 DDR2 ram is barely AU$180! Yes, 620W should be enough, although if I were you i'd go with 700-800W especially if you're going to add another 8800gt. Oh and by the way, why not the 8800gts 512? it only like $100 (US) more and delivers performance that rivals the 8800GTX (in some cases). If you aren't going to get full blown surround sound (i.e. 5.3 or above) you won't need that sound card, and if you are getting overkill surround sound (i.e. 11.3 channel) then it won't be good enough. So I would suggest you just loose that sound card. Nothing serious but why not get a full ATX case? I mean it does have better air circulation and all that stuff and a lot more room too. Good luck on your build... *you'll need it
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dre
Dec 22 2007, 06:00 PM
QUOTE Take note I said 8800GTS 512MB, take a look at its benchmarks compared to the 8800GTX
8800GTS 512MB *Different to the 8800GTS 320MB or 640MB
and also take note, the 8800gt is extremely hot, it can reach temperatures of up to and over 90C on peak loads. Whilst the 8800GTS 512MB's revolutionary new heatsink design means it has a lot lower temperature... Thanks for the info, never knew that. QUOTE Oh, the monitor is the easiest choice ever! Yep, just pick up a Samsung LCD and you're good to go
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csp4.0
Dec 22 2007, 01:41 AM
Oh, the monitor is the easiest choice ever! Just pick a monitor which is the lowest price (<US$250-300) the biggest screen size (22" seems to be the best value for money), the best refresh rate (the lower the better, I'd recommend 2ms, those 5ms are a little slow if you're in to extreme fast movies and/or games) and don't forget the brightness (450-500 does well, although the higher the better (to a certain extend)), last of all, if you are going to be using the monitor to watch movies with your friends/family consider getting a monitor with very good viewing angles so that nobody fights for the front seat. Speakers are not so important if your going to get full blown surround sound, but consider monitors with better speakers (10W+). Oh, and ah... remember the resolution is very important, a typical 22" monitor should have 1680x1050 (or something like that) if the resolution is 1440x abcd it should be 20" etc... if its 1280x efgh it should be 19". Resolution is very important, although some 17", 19" laptop LCDs have 1920x1200, 1920x1080 resolutions desktop LCDs are a little different. Don't all buy from newegg too, some other sites (like dell.com, tigerdirect.com etc) might have some x% off sales too... Remember, if you are going to be playing games (like Crysis etc) then you'll need a monitor with a very good contrast ratio, I recommend atleast 1000:1 although they might be $50-$100 more than the 800:1, 900:1 monitors well here are some recommendations for LCD screens... These are from newegg.com: Monitor-1Monitor-2Monitor-3Dell: Many Dell branded MonitorsWell, that is all. Good luck Monitor Hunting (a division of house hunting...)
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rayzoredge
Dec 21 2007, 05:25 PM
@ Saint Michael and Plug: Yeah... maybe the subject title was a wee bit misleading. I'm willing to pay a little bit more for more productivity and performance, which is why I jumped the gun with a quad core as opposed to a dual core processor. I am NOT willing to overclock anything, since there isn't much sense in gaining 66MHz or whatever when it will shorten the life expectancy by a good bit. (Back in the day, it made sense, but I'd rather have my build last longer. Chances are that I won't even miss the slight boost of speed that I would get from safe and stable overclocking. ) However, I found out that it wasn't just a mere $50... thanks so much for finding that E6750! Question: What's the difference between the E6750 and the E6700 that warrants the outrageous price difference of $130?! I was defending the choice of the quad core because it seemed to be only $50 more than the processor I was looking at, but the E6750 you found was a boon. I previously gave quad core no chance because I figured it was overpriced and not worth the look (before I thought there was only a $50 difference), but now my previous stance remains. Thanks for that.  I picked the case I initially went with because Tom's Hardware recommended it very highly, plus it actually looks pretty nice. The non-traditional internal design seems to make use of a passive cooling solution by design... but this was one component I threw to the wind and picked out because someone said so.  I'll consider the other ones because although Lian Li makes nice cases, the darn thing is $219 by itself! Not super keen on something that looks like a sci-fi toy though...  As mentioned previously, your RAM choices were for 2GB, and I figured I'd chip in a little bit more for 4GB. I'm not super familiar with the differences between 64-bit and 32-bit... I'll have to do some homework on that one. (I thought that it was the fault of XP not being able to utilize more than 3.5GB of RAM?) The 2GB choices are tempting though, as running a machine even with a game like F.E.A.R., a few applications, and background services on my current laptop with 2GB don't produce too much of a hiccup as far as RAM goes for gaming. Water cooling still scares me. I would try it out but you also have to go through the whole process of having to switch out the fluids periodically... which means more chances for me to fudge up and ruin a machine.  I did read into it earlier and figured that it was just simpler to run sinks and fans... I figured that maybe a VGA cooler and aftermarket CPU cooler would help those components from going unstable at higher temperatures? Or am I being paranoid and the stock cooling hardware included with the components will actually prevent that? I took another look at motherboards and funny-enough, I got a different board but at the same price with less negative reviews. The Gigabyte board I was originally looking at had problems with bad BIOS flashes... which knocked the rating down considerably. This ABIT board seems pretty good, well peer-reviewed, and of course features more than enough but with the prospective performance that I would like (P35 Northbridge, etc.). As for the hard drive... that's what I thought when 2GB was more then enough. That turned to 20GB... which turned to 80GB... which turned to 200GB... and I just very recently filled up my 200GB external. (Music, programs, etc. fill up a lot of space... especially today, when it's hard to find a commercial product that doesn't suck up more than 100MB.) I'm working now off of a 500GB for saving the larger files on my 200GB external... The power supply was an iffy decision, since I mentioned that I don't know of a convenient way to figure out power usage from each component. I would imagine that there's an idle wattage and a peak wattage so you could simply add the figures up... I'll look into those power supplies since you're probably right on bumping up the juice box to around 700W. I did have a video card in that list, but I just noticed that they're out of stock. Not sure if they're going to restock or not... but I would like something along the performance lines of the NVIDIA 8800 GS GPU. I know it's rather expensive and up there, but the prices seem to justify the performance boost (twice the price for twice the frame rate). I'll have to look more into those choices you provided me, as well as how much of a difference it will be in real life (as I see it) and if it's worth going for. I want to make sure that they support Dx10 also. I'm planning on a great sound system in the future. I love sound and have not had much opportunity to enjoy the luxury of true surround gaming. Realistically, I don't know if I'll be able to tell between an X-Fi chipset or the older Audigy, but then again, I haven't had the chance to actually sit down and playtest these cards. (I've also been under the notion that aftermarket sound cards are supposedly superior to onboard... but then again, times have changed.) I wish I could do something like that at BestBuy or something like how they have their home theatre "experiences;" sound is very subjective and I don't know how much of a difference sound card and/or onboard qualities will be, if you get what I'm trying to say. (I don't know how to word that at the moment.) Funny as it is, I have no idea what I'm going to get for a monitor yet. I was so focused on the hardware components that I haven't looked into monitors... Definitely going to go with an LCD, even though their refresh rates aren't as good as a CRT (but I hear that they are very close nowadays). I'm actually pretty happy with my 17" laptop LCD, but time will tell as to what I'll eventually settle for. Thanks for the suggestions guys.
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csp4.0
Dec 21 2007, 07:13 AM
QUOTE(dre @ Dec 21 2007, 08:02 PM)  Because the 8800 gt seems to run just as well as a 8800 gts. Take note I said 8800GTS 512MB, take a look at its benchmarks compared to the 8800GTX 8800GTS 512MB *Different to the 8800GTS 320MB or 640MBand also take note, the 8800gt is extremely hot, it can reach temperatures of up to and over 90C on peak loads. Whilst the 8800GTS 512MB's revolutionary new heatsink design means it has a lot lower temperature...
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