Personally, I like IE. I don't know why you guys are against using IE. Sure it has bugs and security problems, what software doesn't? Besides, I have never gotten any viruses from using IE. I have gotten the odd spyware and browser hijack but those are so easy to clean. And you can get those from any security holes. Why use windows at all? Switch to Linux if security is important to you. Why wouldn't you use a browser that will work with 100% of websites? I was actually a netscape user (before that I was using mozilla) but netscape had so many problems it wasn't worth it. Took forever to load, didn't display webpages very well, buggy. BTW, I got up to netscape 4 before switching to IE.

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Mozilla has always been the best browser under linux : free, nice gui and easy to use. The last firefox release is really convenient for all those looking for stability, security, privacy and other nice advanced features

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Because as IE is deprecated, it blocks web evolution.
It doesn't understand standards written 6 years ago (or even before), so webmaster can't use those powerfull tools if they want to keep IE visitorsAllready done for a long time...I don't know what browser are you talking about, but IE doesn't work with modern website (because of modern standards).

You've got to understand than IE is dead...

 

 

 

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Now i know what's the best browser! It's Opera! specially the beta version! it's good! If Opera displays ADS, EMAIL ME! Here is my email add webmaster@kmail.karlo.trap17.com

Thanks!

Opera is very faster and stable than IE, Mozilla, and Firefox!

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this is :rofl:
this post nees no comments
and can be briefed as:
why use sth proffesional when u can be stuck up to your eyes in crap(IE) and be blind enough to take it for perfection

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You guys can say what you want. But, I am not arguing TECHNICAL abilities of IE and other browsers. Please be open minded in life. When 90% of people in the world (give or take) use IE, this is the STANDARD. Not some groups who try to develop alternative "standards" (even if they may be better). There is no arguement here. A standard is simply what everyone uses.

Let me put it this way, if you were running a business and 90% of your customers are using IE, would you design your website for IE or some other package?

And to those who think IE is dead. You explain to me how a 90% market share means the product is dead. Sure, market share may be declining but it is still the standard. I used Netscape (up to 4) before and it had most of the market, but IE took over. So now, I use IE. When that changes, I will use the new standard.

Because I use the standard, I have never have problems viewing ANY website. But using non standard browsers like Opera, Netscape, Firefox, and Mozilla... I have regular problems (some minor, some major) when viewing websites.

Finally, here's another perspective that you may not have seen... Why do you always have to use something "professional" when something else you have already does the job? I would prefer not to install another browser on my system if I can help it. My laptop has a small hard drive so I dont want to waste space on 2 differnet browsers. Have you ever thought of that? Yes, I might be able to remove IE from my computer but what's the point when it gets the job done for me?

These are 2 perspectives that you simply disregard and see as invalid. This, to me, is being narrow minded. To call me "blind" because I think IE is the "best fit" for my situation is simply ignorant and arrogant.

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i agree with this in 99% but in theory only

if 90 % of users would choose(not were made to) using IE then yes this would be fair. Couse then IE would have to stand for a good application according to market rules and guidelines like -> the better the product the biggers the demand fot it. If IE stood up to those rules i am more then sure that its share of browsers market wouldnt exceed 5%.

people use IE couse its there and MS makes sure then a standard user wont even know about a possibility of a switch to sth better

and the final agruments :
how many users that know what is what in the binary world use IE as their primary browser ?

how many supporters does IE have amongst proffesionals?
how many users would choose IE when aware of the diffrences(both advantages and disadvantages) comparing to real browsers?

thats about it


call it as you wish couse what we were trying to get across was global not your own situation. BLIND was for all of IE users and bu that YOU to.

TO TOP THING UP:
i usderstand taht you are a big IE fan.Thats ok . but i kindly ask you to try the following as a test:
-scan your pc for wiruser trojans
-get rid of IE for some time or just dont use it(set it so it wont connecy to the net(the same with outlook)
-install mozilla of firefox and firebird as you mail client
-disable your antivirus (yes)
-after a week run a scann of you PC and you are bound to find 1/4 or even less of threats then while using IE and other ms crap

take care

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your point does not address the fact that IE is the standard browser for 90% of the market. How does "not being fair" change this FACT? IE is the standard...



Sorry, but this so called market rule is not exactly how it works in the real world. Markets operate on supply and demand (you agree with this right?). But, both demand and supply can be manipulated. You are taking a very "idealistic" view of market mechanics. How many companies in the world have marketing departments? Their job is to take a product and create demand for it. There are many products in the world that are not the best and may even be crap but sell very well. Look at GM, their cars are crap compared to Japanese quality yet they are the biggest automotive maker in the world. There are many such examples.

In the business world, in order to sell product you don't have to have the best.
You simply have to sell it using different strategies.



You're right. I use IE cause its there. Antitrust, unfair, blah, blah. Life is unfair, the courts decided Microsoft did not have a monopoly and was not operating illegally. Microsoft was not always this big. How did they get this way? Cause Bill Gates is a smart business man. He realized that he doesn't need to have the best product to make money. Another perspective on IE being better... the business side.

How can MS make sure the standard user doesn't know about alternative browsers? They don't control the media, they don't control word of mouth, they don't control forums like this. So why is IE still dominating? Opera, Netscape, and other browsers have been around for a long time. The reason is because the masses don't really care...



Me. You assume I don't know anything about "the binary world" because I use IE? This is both ignorant and arrogant.



My point and alternative view is... WHO CARES? What percentage of the market does professionals make up? They are insignificant compared to the masses. This is the BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE...

And, just because professionals use something doesn't make it the best. Again, you have to look at the users needs. If a professional is always trying to use the latest technologies and the fanciest features, obviously their needs lie outside of IE. If a professional race car driver buys a Ferrari, does that mean Ferrari's are the best car for everyone? Absolutely not. Most people don't need to drive faster than 70mph so they can get away with buying a Ford. Are Fords the best? No. But it fulfills the needs of the user, making it best for them.



Again, you are missing the point. I told you in the previous post already. Listen (or read) carefully, I am not arguing that IE is technically superior to any other product! Besides, being a "standard" user they don't quite care (or maybe do not know how) to go out and look for another browser and install it. Then... learn how to use it. Why bother?



Includes me?? Please read my previous post carefully. I have used many of the "alternative" browsers. In fact, I have been using the internet browsers before IE was even on the map... Also, I have been using the internet before browsers even existed... Please don't make the assumption that, if I am using IE as my primary browser... (1) I don't know anything about "the binary world" (2) I've never tried alternative browsers. (3) I don't even know alternative browsers exist.

Finally, I don't understand what you mean by "global". If you mean "most users world wide", then you are wrong again. IE is the most popular browser making it the standard and by default the best to most people.



What is the point of this? To tell me how many people target Microsoft? If that is the case, I already know. Thanks anyway. Yes, MS is big and people target them because their "attacks" will have the biggest impact. One reason the "alternatives" are "safer" is simply because nobody cares about them so they don't even bother trying to find the security holes in the alternatives. But, trust me, they are there.

Again, I already told you in previous posts. I don't get spyware, I don't get viruses. In the last 2 years (this is as far as I can remember since getting my last computer), I've had ONE browser hijack/spyware incident which took me a whole 2 mins to clean. I have had ZERO viruses. And I use Internet Explorer AND Outlook... Go figure...

Man, these posts are too long. I am gonna stop. I'm not here to try and open eyes. I have been around "professionals" a long time and I know the type. I used to be like that. I couldn't understand why people used inferior products. But, I've grown beyond my old views and become more open minded. There are other views and only when you see those can you understand other people.

That's all I'm gonna say on this topic before it gets out of hand.

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[quote] the standard...[/quote]
a standard is set by quality not quantity

[quote]There are many products in the world that are not the best and may even be crap but sell very well.[/quote]
U couldnt be more true
but is this good?
and im happy u brought this as an example couse it covers the IE issue perfectly

[quote]You simply have to sell it using different strategies.[/quote]
tell me more bout it
im studying economics

[quote]Cause Bill Gates is a smart business man.[/quote]
and a very smart man who has my respect (really he does)

[quote] So why is IE still dominating?  ..... The reason is because the masses don't really care...[/quote] some part of it cares but since MS marketing strategy was to get PPL used to their way of clicking so they are not eager to switch the reason is indeed here

[quote]Me.  You assume I don't know anything about "the binary world" because I use IE? This is both ignorant and arrogant.[/quote]
read into the question once more and you will find that its purpose is to show the global statistic(and nothing is 100% in this world ) not to offend anyone (if you feel that way then i deeply apologize)
[quote]*What percentage of the market does professionals make up?  They are insignificant compared to the masses.  This is the BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE... 
[/quote]
yet again -> quality above quantity not the other way around

[quote]
Again, you are missing the point.  I told you in the previous post already.  Listen (or read) carefully, I am not arguing that IE is technically superior to any other product!  Besides, being a "standard" user they don't quite care (or maybe do not know how) to go out and look for another browser and install it. [/quote]
I DID MISS YOUR POINT, sorry -> i felt like you referring to IE capabilities as the reason for its supremacy

[quote]Finally, I don't understand what you mean by "global"[/quote]
look for the line with a "*" for the explanation

[quote]What is the point of this? To tell me how many people target Microsoft? [/quote] no ->simply to show ppl what is what ->to be honest (the antonym of marketing )

[quote]simply because nobody cares about them so they don't even bother trying to find the security holes in the alternatives.  But, trust me, they are there.[/quote]
hehehe -> pure propaganda-> holes are everywhere in every piece of code on this planet, even in cheese:P but to say that nobody cares to resolved them is pure ignorace from your side but fits to IEs marketing (as said before). Open source apps becouse their OPEN source are easier to fix , having 1000 ppl looking at a problem from the inside is better to have one or ten.even if they are most talented .
and an another thing. Ie was build regardless of the prossible holes and was supposed to be "fixed" with patches and *BLEEP*. Mozilla and similar projects are build not to have then in the first place. ->thats the difference

[quote] I've had ONE browser hijack/spyware incident which took me a whole 2 mins to clean.  I have had ZERO viruses.  And I use Internet Explorer AND Outlook...  Go figure... [/quote]
so you are the 1% of the general ie users population
good for You

[quote] Man, these posts are too long.  I am gonna stop. [/quote]
you are right

[quote]I've grown beyond my old views and become more open minded.[/quote]
yes open minded for one product ->it seems i dont have a proper description of"open minded" in my head

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so all in all you seem to acknowledge the fact the IE is behind some browsers form the quality point of view ? right?
they the reason for this topic should be clear -> show pll what is what

you seem to realize what drives the market(supply and demand) so U should also know that monopoly is not legal for some reasons ->i recommend begg's macro/micro economy books for the deeper look into this

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i dont see how i could use anything other than firefox.
i love the extensions it has, all the features, and stuff i really dont care about like security and such.

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