hi friends,

sometimes while i am free and sitting alone my mind starts wandering in different directions...most of the time it wanders in the amazing world of theoretical physics and technology, as you people must have noticed from my posts, but some times when my mind ventures out in the real world one question that intrigues me a lot is that whether the so called Great people were or are Really Great or just Great Manipulators...

I can collect about my thinking on this topic well only when i am deep down my thinking process...but to start off with this topic i will try to recollect some of my thoughts...

I m from India and in the Indian freedom struggle many brave people laid down their lives...but the matter of fact is that when it comes to honouring people for their sacrifice the names that come up are of those people who just sat and took decisions according to what their occupiers wished and yet showed to the general public that they work for them...some people who know about history of India might disagree, because of their different thoughts, about my last statement...but still the people who have made the supreme sacrifice must be given a higher place than the others...so what i feel is that the people who died were Really Great but the people who are honoured and are so called Great were Great Manipulators...

Same is the case, i feel, in different parts of world...

same is the story in sports...like i am a great cricket lover...what i feel is that some of the players considered best, are just great manipulators in the sense that they just play for themselves and not the team and yet portray themselves as if they are always thinking of the team...on the other hand some players who always think of the team cannot portray themselves correctly in front of general public and hence lose out in the race...

actually i don't know whether i am making any sense or not...whether i am able to express myself clearly or not...but i wanted to write this because sometimes when i start thinking about this i feel very, i don't know exactly, but maybe frustrated or bound or handicapped that i cannot do anything to get some people, whom i respect very much, a deserving place...

hope anyone reading this would not have got tooooo bored.... ....but do tell me if i was boring on this topic...your criticism will be happily accepted...

and if you like this topic then please do write about your thoughts so that i can know what others think on this...

ok bye...keep writing...

Heh. Well it's definitely not too boring, but it is a good question. I've kind of been wondering the same thing as you with the cricket matches -except I was watching the Brazilian national team play in the World Cup last year. Seemed like everyone there was great, but not really playing as a coordinated team. - Don't get me wrong, it's my favorite team, but it seemed like the team couldn't coordinate itself too well. I've also been wondering about it in the case of some national politicians, but I don't feel like starting a flame war on something so trivial.

I guess I'd say they're half and half. Because some people really are so great because they're good manipulators. That's what makes great politicians.

And you'd need a stronger bound for the word 'manipulate' in order to discuss this I'd think. I could say that a scientist is really a great 'manipulator' of data and theorems in an empirical way. Or I could further say that all people manipulate, therefore great people would also be great manipulators. It'd depend on your specific definition here.

Great people are few that just many people like. Its not always because they are nice or anything a common thing that happens now a days in schools and everywhere else is the toughest and the baddest guy is the greatest one. The time of being great by doing great things is over because unless you are the popular guy no one cares about you. Great people manipulate according to situation and not all people are bad but most of the great people are not good either depending on the way you see it.

hi friends,

thank you for your replies...i am amazed that i have got two replies on such a topic and about 60 or so views...i was thinking that this topic of mine will be a dud...

by the way, i feel that although none of us have been able to express our feelings in a clear manner, because of the fact that this is such an intriguing and quiet confusing topic but i feel and can almost deduct, through posts and votes that, almost all of us feel the same way about great people, that these days most of them are just great manipulators and nothing else....

well its nice to hear you people's thoughts....so keep writing ....

bye to all...

i choose the Most Are Great Manipulaters because it is true
Most "Great" people are people who either come from rich families where they are already "Great". Or, they are a celebrity, and are therefore going to gain an extreme amount of monetary gain.

Mostly all "Great" people have to manipulate people in order for them to get people to do things for them.
They sometimes lie, cheat, blackmail, or do anything they can to make sure that they will always be considered a "Great" person.
and with being a "Great" person, it means that this person often becomes overwhelmed with themselves and the power of being considered a "Great person"



Just my opinion..

I would say they are mostly great but the fact here is question on the other hand whether they are competing in the team sport or individual discipline and I consider physics and other sciences as team sports.

And there is the main problem because individual without good team is nothing but he gets the most from the win or he is priced as heroic figure this is wrong as for the win itself it is every member of the team who influenced and worked for it. This is wrong and it is happening in many sports. Same thing happened let's say in the formula 1 when Michael Schumacher was passing his second team driver Barichello even though second driver would have been first and won the match. This is really bad and stupid as Michael Schumacher would be out long time ago if he hadn't had his team.

Same thing is happening with the team bycicle drivers when they protect one driver in the middle from the influence of the wind and they in fact sometimes push him so that he could explode in the last kilometer. It is just wrong and point here is that sports are becoming more and more professional and there is no sport anymore just money and advertising and profit nothing else.

Also same thing happens in physics only two persons in my opinion who are really great are sir Newton and Nikola Tesla. They invented really new things without interference and help of the others.

And for the Einstein he was just media person and used lack of knowledge in the people to gain internal glory. As if you know physics a bit you will see that he hasn't proved or discovered anything new and if you know history you will find that he himself did not know what he found but rather spoken of it like equation and the problem is when the other scientists explained what he found he did not agree with them and made mistake.

In fact he just used the knowledge we already had and wrote it in new way or transformed some well known equations and transfromed then into E=mc2.

I would also say it is both. But to be great you need to be a decent manipulator because if you can't get people behind you, you cannot do anything. A manipulator sounds like another word for leader. The leader of a team isn't always the best but he can get the most out of those around him. Also you can't really say who is playing for themselves in sports to who is playing for the team. In my opinion, unless you're playing for free, are willing to take paycuts, don't mind sitting on the bench, or whatever you are playing mostly for yourself. Though that isn't to say you don't love the team just because you aren't willing to do those things, I mean who wouldn't welcome the money if they can get it? You have to be realistic, but to say that most people are just great - is being really... really naive. I'd put my money on most of the people being manipulators.

You mean actually if someone does all those things then he is playing for the team and not for himself.

However you can see this as nice example in the football. As if you have one player score it is not only his good work but the collaboration of the team. And if this player is then running in the winning run and he doesn't won to wait for other players then he is just playing for himself and not for the team. Because he couldn't score it without team as in fact team helped him.