I thought about this and I like it. You may disagree or agree or may like 1 or 2, but still read it and tell me what you think.

Spy
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Sapper Replacement
Electronic Canceler:
-------------------

At a limited distance away, you must look at the
sentry, teleporter, or dispenser and you can use
your electronic canceler. It will freeze the sentry,
dispenser, or teleporter for an X amount of seconds (I suggest 10)
and once it is over, the engineer's building unfreezes.
Engineer can still repair
Now valve can do whatever they want with this but, I like this:

You can have a regain timer, almost like your cloak but once
you use it, it goes to 0 and resets again. Maybe every 20-30 seconds or whatever

With this you cannot actually break their building, but
rather create an opportunity for your team member to break
it for you. This will allow the spy to do more teamwork
than they already do and is a nice replacement that is not
too weak or too strong.

==========================

Magnum Replacement
Sleeper Gun:
--------------

With this gun I thought up, it can be pretty cool...Basicly I want
it like this:

Every shot you shoot someone with your gun they lose health of course, but
also slow down 2% with every shot you shoot. This effect stays on for maybe 10-20
seconds or whatever valve wants, but with this gun, you can create wonderful
opportunities to not only help yourself catch up to them and stab them in the
back but help your teammates in a variety of situations from runners to incoming
enemies and the such. if 2% isn't good enough, make it more. Whatever valve wants!

===========================

Butterfly Knife Replacement
Cionide Injection:
-----------------

I was thinking and I thought up of this. It's pretty cool I think.
This of course only works from the back, BUUUUUUT it has a twist

I thought up of doing something new here

It's range is point blank, you have to be pretty much touching them.

Your weapon is a needle with the deadly liquid scionide which is 100% death instantly

The model can be a small syringe with green/blue liquid bright glowing liquid inside of it

OK..HERE IS THE TWIST, ITS NEW BUT IT WORKS

When you attack your opponent, you don't lose your disquise!!!!!!!!

Instead, when you have your Cionide Injection needle out, you look like the enemy
but instead of holding their default weapon, the enemy can see you holding the needle
--Remember the needle has glowing neon liquid that lights up in the dark so it should be
pretty easy to spot

When you have your gun / sapper, you go back to having the default enemy weapon, but not the injection!

I think this creates much newer opportunities

And if valve wants like the 25% slow down thing for the ubersaw, they
can add a little thing to this such as if an enemy pyro burns you, the needle explodes
and causes yourself to get an X amount of damage such as 50% ECT

This makes you further act like a spy and take it out at the perfect time, kill, and switch back

They can make a new sound for each character that gets injection, like a soft moan or something like that

===============

I think my ideas create a new gameplay for the spy that can actually help out the teammate.
You may disagree with my idea or like it, but this is my suggestion!

At least, friendly fire is a must. Why? I like being a spy too, but everytimes somebody sees a teammate, they shoot to perform a spycheck (me too). And spy is easily known because they cannot disguise to somebody with a secondary weapons (probably you'll know this, who doesnt?)

I like the electronic canceller, because this is the only alternative you used that actually adds something nice to the game without ruining it.

See that as a compliment please.



-reply by Nickolas

The electronic canceler seems like a good idea, since it lets you work with your team. However, your forgetting that a regular sapper can take a building down for more than 10 seconds, have no charge time, And damage the building. The only thing you've really added is the ability to do it from far away, which doesn't make sense since the spy's main objective is to sneak behind enemy lines. I have seen another incarnation of this idea (the magnetic sapper) that takes the building down but does no damage, letting another team mate destroy it.

As for the sleeper gun, it sounds like a good idea, but when you think about it, the player on the other end would have their game lagged up while the get shot or stabbed in the back. That doesn't seem very fun.

Your last idea, the sionide injection, seems a little awkward. I have an idea that's similar to this.

My Ideas:

Revlover = Silencer

The gun does more that just make you shots silent. You enemy will still see their health drop, but they won't be able to tell where the shot is coming from. And, you can also shoot while cloaked or disguised. While your disguised, it will appear that your diguise is firing their weapon. But because your enemy is taking damage, it might be a give away. Also, while you cloaked, each shot lowers you cloak bar, but the weapon it's self raises you max cloak to give you more time to shoot. The weapon would have to b very weak so that you don't pick of enemies while they have no idea where you are.

Sapper = Spy Bombs

This idea may not b very good, but I think it opens up a lot of options. Instead of sappers, you can now place a bomb. You can only have one at a time so that you don't place them every where. You can place the spy bombs anywhere, walls, floors, engie buildings, and even allies or enemies. The bomb is set off by bumping into it or being shot at. And, since you can only have one, clicking fire while the bomb is deployed cloaks it. Some examples are:
� Placing one on a damaged enemy building. When the engie comes to repair it, it'll go off from the wrench hit
� Placing one on a dispenser so that an enemy will bump into it and set it off.
� Placing one on the floor around a corner so the enemy will step on it
� Placing one on a friendly scout, have them run into an enemy group, get shot, and set off the bomb
� Placing one on a friendly spy have them cloak, run behind enemy lines, get shot and set it off
Most of these only work if the bomb is cloaked so that the enemy doesn't notice it

Knife = Pen Knife

This weapon, like the injection, can be used while your disguised. It doesn't kill from behind, but instead take their disguise. To use it, you must hold down the fire button. You'll stab them with the knife, and begin to do damage. As you kill them, you pen will fill with ink. Once you've killed them (you pen is full) they die, but they leave no sign of death except a pool of ink that fades quickly. But when you kill with this pen, you immediately take the enemy's disguise. You take their name AND their weapon. This way, you can be a medic with a medigun or an Engie with a wrench.

Please give some me some feed back.

-reply by cmooney13

Well, your spy bomb is basically an ied, a mine, or a suicide weapon. It may be a good idea, but who knows if anyone from Valve is reading this!

Why don't we just give the spy a knife that he can throw? Maybe give him 3 butterfly knifes, and he can throw them to backstab someone from 10 feet away. What do you guys think?

Pyros are tooooo powerful
My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

Ok first I want know cant you do something with the bloody pyros and people just shooting you and well then they know your a spy pyros are just too overpowered I think they don't need any skill and they can just fire at the air and ok look theres a spy and I want to get my revenge back on pyros so just go mad on the spy updates Please people rdy see me when I'm a spy so whats the point of making it more like a enemy spy?... I'm tired of getting shot burned and killed by a wrench atleast make his tux better or something and don't make the person slow they still always kill me I dunno what they were thinking with the stupid heavy update...

-reply by Brett

Yeah... I think that spies have it hard. Pyros have nearly endless ammo to throw around because their lives are so short; they're constantly getting more ammo. Your four minute excursion into the enemy base can end by a single man with a flamer hitting you once because he felt like firing at the air. But the spies also are one of the biggest pain in the butt people to play against. If the enemy has a talented spy, they can be death on wheels. I play as a medic most of the time (because everybody that tries to, sucks) and Spies are aggravating. I constantly have my medigun out, so I can't check to see if the dude is actually a spy. I just heal and run. So I die. And I die, and I die some more.

If you play the spy right, they can be really destructive.
I really like the pen knife idea... It would really give a boostie up to the spy, and make it really hard to tell who is a spy and who isn't. But then, I don't think that Valve is paying attention anyway. So whatever.

My own suggestions
My Spy Suggestions For Team Fortress 2 Next Update S

I honestly really like and dislike a lot of the above comments and creations.

I've been working on them for a while, so hopefully they make sense, I actually helped think up some of the weapons (boxing gloves and sandvich) for the Heavy update. Although I was not the original concept creator, I helped improve the idea.

Here are my spy weapon suggestions:

First lets look at what the spy's goals are in the team and what he has to work with. Then lets think of some trade offs, always give people a good trade off, either this or that.

Example for Heavy, you can slow people down but keep them in your sights longer with the new minigun but have less power, or have lots of power, but no slowing effects.

Example for Pyro, you can either have the ability to throw objects back at players and do good damage all around, or be poor head on but devastating if attacking from behind.


So, the Spy's goals are:

To infiltrate enemy team undetected, kill and destroy any buildings and open pockets for friendly team members to attack from and take out threats that could destroy your team.

So lets look at his current weapons...

#1 Revolver

Loud pistol that does a minimum of 25damage at long range, and max of 60 at point blank. It only has 6 shots in it.

#2 Electro Sapper

Sapping unit that slowly drains a sentry until it gets destroyed at 6 or 9 seconds after applying it.

#3 Butterfly Knife

Kills instantly from behind but raises disguise, terrible 30 damage from front or sides.

#4 Cloak

Limited invisibility from all players that drains when used and regenerates when not in use. However regeneration takes a long time.

#5 Disguise case

Allows for Disguises to be used, but they break upon attacking exposing you as you really are, a Spy.



My new weapon ideas that will help emphasize the Spy�s goals
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#1 SBDP- Silent But Deadly Pistol---------------------------------

This is a shiny silver metal pistol that is given to the top spies. Its size is similar to the Scout�s pistol, but much longer in length due to its oversized custom made 8� silencer to allow maximum stealth shots. Due to the size and color of the gun, an enemy can recognize easily the skill level and respect of his new found opponent.

The SBDP is designed to allow the Spy to take shots without the victim knowing the location of the shooter. It also has a 100% critical guaranteed for shots to the victims back. The pistol however due to the caliber change, can only hold 3 shots. The pistol bullets are much stronger than the normal ones designed for the revolver, but carry a damage rate of 25-30 at long range, 40-50 at mid range and 60-70 at close to point blank. The SBDP is only given to those with great marksman skills since its very low ammo capacity requires great accuracy.

#2 TIP- Toxic Injection Pen--------------------------------------

The TIP is the newest instrument in a Spies arsenal. This newly created device, invented at HQ, is filled with a highly poisonous serum that numbs all senses until shutting down the brain functions. In other words, the victim will become disoriented and black out/die within a matter of seconds. All while being stylishly disposed of from the top of the shiny aluminum cap to the color of the fluorescent green pen all the way to the end containing a peculiarly sharp shiny