Allow me to try to put it in terms that you might have an easier time understanding.
Let's say you have a job. Someone of another race comes in and starts working the same job. It's demeaning for him to have the same title as you, they give him another title and twice the pay for doing the exact same job. Then he gets promoted to a supervisory position despite the fact that you have worked there longer. All because he happens to be the "right" race.
Now change race to gender.
You can't put a woman on a pedestal and then treat her as an inferior. It just doesn't work that way. You choose one or the other. Respect her for the contribution that she makes to society or treat her like a slave and deal with the consequences. This "feminist crap" is just asking for equal rights and equal opportunity. Most people agree that racism is wrong. Sexism and gender bias should be considered just as wrong.
As for your example, women are smart enough to realize that getting caught for stealing bread isn't going to help her family. Sad to say, but rather than risking everything for a single loaf of bread, it's better to find a john with enough money to pay for the loaf, some eggs, and some milk. Women are just as capable, if not more so, of being as calculating and emotionless as men, we just know how to pretend better.

I understand, to a certain degree, where you're coming from. However, we cannot always eradicate the glaring differences and pretend it's not there.

Racism is wrong, yeah. It is awful to promote someone simply because he's American/German/French/English while other people get left behind because they're American/Mexican/Chinese/Japanese/Indian. However, you can't make a black school girl act in a play and wear a costume like some Korean in Miss Saigon. You can't ask a German to wear a turban and pose as an Arab. It'd be inhuman to make a woman from a short race walk down the runway with long flowing robes or togas obviously meant for a much taller model!

In the same way, would you, as a person, seriously ask a woman to serve as one of the ship's crew, considering that majority of the crew is composed of "filthy, lustful, barbaric males"? Would you just assume that that woman can defend herself from sexual assault as well as any male can?

Similarly, would you trust a male salesman of female Avon products? (Uh, I'm not sure but does Avon have any male products?) Would you buy bras and panties recommended by a male sales personnel?

I that respect, you can never achieve absolute equality, however, just because two things are not equal does not mean one is higher than the other. I think, what it means, is that there are things each can do better than the other.

Seriously now, what's the deal with this competition? What on earth is the point of comparing two completely different things? It's like asking if carrot cake tastes better than Pepsi. Oh yeah, for ace5, it's not feminist nor is it chauvinist. It's pointless, that's all

I honestly see no reason why women can't serve as equally as men. I have a female cousin who did serve in the navy and did spend months at a time on a ship. And why is it that women, who are the victims of assault, should be penalized for men's inability to control their libido? If men would see women as equals and respect them as such, I fully believe that there would be less cases of rape and assault on women.


I have a friend who is heterosexual that works at Victoria Secret. I used to go to a male hairdresser who would talk on and on about his wife and son. I've had my nails done by a man who owns a nail salon with his wife. I have bought make up from a man at the Lancome counter at Nordstrom's. I really don't see why buying these things from a man is any different than buying them from a woman if that guy is knowledgeable and competent at his job. Why is it, then, that men won't take their car to a woman mechanic or hire a female contractor?
As to trivialize the issue by comparing women and men with the taste of a carrot cake or a Pepsi, that only proves how little progress has been made in women's efforts. When I started this topic, I was simply interested in the perspective of whether people actually believe that biological differences makes a difference in equality. Little did I realize that my idealistic world where women and men realize that despite gender differences, we are all humans and capable of working together towards a better and equal human civilization. It saddens me that despite the scientific proof and everyday examples that women are as capable of being as intelligent, as strong, as hard-working as men, the world continues to simplify that cry for equality as simply another nagging, *BLEEP*y woman. What saddens me more is that this belief is instilled and nurtured in the home, from what mothers teach their children, from the way wives treat their husbands, or the way husbands treat their wives.

That being said, I'm retiring from this thread because it pains me to see how women are disregarded in society. I encourage further discussion on the subject, but I ask that you all keep an open mind and perhaps my idyllic world will someday be realized and people will live and work together without regard to race or ethnicity or gender. In my eyes, we are, all of us, unique and special in our own ways, but we are still members of humankind.
***steps off the soapbox***

I don't want to step into this thread because I will probably just be struck down, but from you're first post you stated the usual "women are better at multitasking than men"
Well yes, it's a well known topic, but no, it's not true. Most people will know how wrong this is. Both sexes can multitask as good as the other, it really depends on the person in question's mindset and their way of going about different tasks. (certainly not gender specific)

But in regard to the overrall question, at least our generation won't be equal, but the fact is both sexes are just as good at specific things as the other, some of those things are more important, and some less so. But still, it's life so instead of making a fantasy just work around it and make the best of the things you are good at.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: Jul 26 2007, 08:46 PM

but you also can't assume that they can't defend themselves from assaults like these. And even if a ship's crew are mostly composed of men, you can't just jump in and assume they're all filthy and lustful, barbaric males. you see, there's a degree of stereotyping in that. when you said "ship's crew" i was thinking marines, so in a way i feel like they could still have that camaraderie without the lust part. then again, i haven't been in a ship so i wouldn't know.


well sometimes gender doesn't have anything to do with the product they're selling. usually it comes to the talent of persuading the customers in buying the products without having the thought of trying them on. but i get your point, products like such are "best" advertised by the same gender because they know better, their bodies relate to each other.

There are many aspects.women are certainly as intelligent as men if they are given equal opportunities of education. It is a well known fact that many women have been working side by side with men in many fields . Besides, there are many women, Madame Curit and Margreat Thatcher, to name only a few, in history who work as scientists and politicians. So men and women should be equal in every respect.
In families,the traditional role of the man was to work and the money he made would be used by all in the household. The traditional role of the woman was to stay home, take care of the children, clean the house, and cook. Because society has always associated money with power, the person bringing home the money had the power. The man often makes the final decision on all household matters .But it is different between man and woman only . They are equal.
i firmly believe that women should be given the same rights as men, because they are equally important in all human activities. Our human society would definitely have stopped to exist without either of the sex. Is there any reason that men and women should be treated differenty?

In my opinion, women and men are equal. It is true that men can do things that women cannot do and that women can do things that man cannot. However, I do not view this as bad, as I believe that diversity is good for culture and communities.

I would hope that other people see this in the same way that I do, and one day this will be a general belief.

well put liam! i was going to post the exact comment you just made