Stop whining like a bunch of hippies about animals rights already. Each and every one of you are incorrect. Why do we have the right to be the dominant species? We're smarter and could use tools. Get over it. Animals kill other living things for entertainment or food all the time. If they deserve rights so badly, why don't they just evolve like we did and progress into something with intelligence that doesn't act on core pre-programmed instincts? The more advanced things always win, get over it. If you're going to complain that badly, become a full-blown furry and get it over with so some hillbilly can shoot you when you're in your fursuit in the woods, CSI-style.

There's no solid evidence animals can even have complex emotions like humans can. Hell, unless if they're a monkey, they think their own reflection is another being.

As long as you guys keep being hippies and don't do anything, the world won't change. Animals kill animals. It's the way the world works. Often, animals kill or harm other animals just for hahas. If you think the animals deserve rights so badly, they should fight for them like people have to. Until they do so, I don't expect to see this kind of retarded load of horse snot again.

If you're going to complain about pain, you'd be for euthanasia. If you're not for killing animals, you're for letting them starve or being pain? The only solution is to take common sense into account. Let everything happen. They don't live quite as long as us, most of the time. They're less advanced. If you don't know this, whatever. Keep whining, not only I, but plenty of others won't be paying attention. I'll eat meat even if a precious cow, chicken, or other animals has to die. It's nature. If you can't accept nature, it's YOUR problem. Don't involve the entire eco-system, for crying out loud.

That we are the dominant species on this planet doesn't give us the right to abuse our dominance by abusing other species.
We are the domiant species because a sheep needs a sheperd and in this case animals are the 'sheep' and we are the 'sheperds'.
Of course animals are here to easen our existance, like horses for plowing, chicken for laying aggs for proteïne and such, but I think it's really sick that animals are used now for mass-production for McDonalds and for testing medicine, cosmetics and some food-supplements. How would a human feel him or herself if some rat would test his crap on that person?

An animal never kills another animal for 'fun'. They kill because their instinct tells them to do, because that animal might need food or the other, killed animal is a threat to it's survival. The only animals killing for fun are those who are killing eachother for our fun.

Why can't an animal have emotions? Because it is never proven, doesn't mean they don't have them.
Look into an animal's eye when it's hurt and tell me you don't see suffering.

Heh, if it wasn't for some situations that occured we might be the same as animals are now and another species would be evolved and use us for their twisted ideas. Every living being has the right to live. What was it again...? If a being is concious of their existance and fears death, it is intelligent enough for the right to survive. Every mammel that I've seen fights to live and for survival, only difference between them and us is that they have a lower level of intelligence.

In the science world a monkey is a animal, so you are wrong there. Come to think about it, before we even evolved to who we are to day all we where was basically an amoeba. The board was not really about whether animals should be killed or not. I personally believe that its ok to kill an animal to sustain your survival, but nothing more. Just a note, but animals rarely will waste there energy on killing something just for "hahas", and if that's the case then animals must have some short of emotions to be able to have that thought process.
Anyway, Everything would die off if something didn't keep some animals in check. The board however was about animal abuse, intentional harm to an animal without a reason or cause. Some how it seems the board got sent over to the issue that we shouldn't kill animals at all. I think there are reason where it is ok kill an animal, but those reason are far and few between and it shouldn't be in a way that we would considered cruel and inhumane if you did it to a human.

You say we have the right to abuse animals, because they don't feel pain? Well they do, they can even tell when WE'RE suffering. Animals can sence when a human is in pain, and they try to comfort the human. When animals are in pain you can very well tell. The animal keeps to itself, it's not very active, and it always has that "look".

So you say we have the right to abuse animals, well, then animals should have the right to abuse us! But no? An animal bites someone "PUT IT DOWN", no question. If your views are in such a manner like that, then why do humans get penilized for killing a human? Isn't it the same thing as you're saying "animals kill animals, get over it". Well, humans kill humans "GET OVER IT". Right?

And please stop calling people "hippies". We're not hippies. I'm sure a lot of people who have joined this convo eat meat. We're giving our views on a matter, if you can't contribute things other then "Get over it, animals kill animals", well..

I noticed how kioku has a way of calling everyone a hippie, when they don't see the world the way he does... I have two dogs, and I would gladly spend more money on their food, than on myself... I had a dog about a year and a half ago, that unfortunately died, but that was inevitable, as it wasn't curable... But I spent 2 months salary on the operation, and I never blinked doing that... And I would spend it again... But I guess people concider me a hippie, because I do that... My only message to them is to think about their on lives, and why they aren't satisfied with them, and why are they angry at every living thing on this planet... By stating that if some race is less evolved and inferior in some way, than us, and thus should be hunted, killed, and tortured, only shows that you are in fact, less evolved... I believe that could be called superiority complex?

When I'm sick, my dog would come, and lie next to my bed, and look sadly at me, and try to ease my pain, and to help me get well... When he was little, only 4 or 5 months, my dog, Max, a German sheepdog, actually brought me grass when I was sick, hoping that would help me get better! How's that for intelligence? ANd that was so cute, he brought it, and put it next to my bed, and sat, and just looked at me, with his head tilted to one side... I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, it was so cute... And he still is cute, and good, and I believe he would give his life to protect me, faster than some humans would... And you say they don't have feelings? They do have feelings, and they do have them even more than we do... I don't know whether people realize this, but we are animals too... With one big difference - Animals never, ever, kill for "hahas"... Humans make them do that, with all those pitbull fights, and whatnot... Animal will only attack when attacked, or when in dire need of survival...

I would really rather not comment on the level of intelligence of some people, and how civilised are they... Thanks to those people, world is the way it is today... Humans are not god given to this planet, and we are not masters of it... People will realize this, only, it will be too late for that, because nature will start over... perhaps with the fishes...

And should the animals decide to fight for they rights, we will be in a big pile of doo-doo... and you kioku, will be in the biggest pile...

This post has been edited by Galahad: Jun 22 2006, 10:13 AM

Its demented, treating an animal like that. It has feelings too.... I personally know that it takes little to provide food and water for an animal. Someone I know has a pet and they have little money and yet their pet is fed better than they are. 2 days isn't ajust punnishment for anything, it's stiill like murdering a child, isn't it? They depend on you to help them and feed them and you don't just like abusing a child! I don't get people and the judges that give 2 days in prison for something like murder.........

Many animals don't have the capacity to think like us humans do. They don't have emotion, just basic response to stimuli, called by instinct, which many think as emotion.
Example:
Pain -> Whine
Food -> Gesture
Seeing thing that beat it -> Defense
Seing something new -> Examination to see if it is good
We were able to evolve to be able to have true emotion, which allowed us to ponder ourselves to where we are today.

I agree they should be punished just like the animals they abused.

I also watch this kind of TV shows on Animal Planet. The only difference it that they show Miami Animal Police. You are right with the problem of the fine and jail time, but you have to realize that there are far more important problems in the world then dogs not eating for two weeks. Some people in Africa don't eat for two weeks, so you see I can't agree to the fact that animals are considered a priority. We are still human and we should be looking after our "brothers" and "sisters".
More the point there are lots of countries (mine included) who cannot afford to have an animal police. Even the human justice in the USA is far from perfect so you cannot demand to have a perfect justice for animals. In my country someone steals a cabbage (!) and he goes in jail for 6 months (!) (true story). A rich men shoots in the head a poor men because he dared to swim in this lake on a hot summer day (true story again) and guess what...the official conclusion: the weapon missfired and the poor men shot by mistake.... rich men gets 3 years in prison (which will probably be around 2 if the doesn't cause problems in prison). So you see there are ar greater problems with our justice system then this animal justice problems.

I agree with BEagle that people who abuse them should be given a harsher punishment such as life in prision without parole mabe that will treach me a lesson that they shouldn't abuse animals and as MadKatz said" but need to be hunted down and punished for their crime (I think life in prison is a good option)." this is a punishment associated with murder, should then animals be treated with the same rights as humans? do you buy and sell humans? That so true the lkilled an amimal is should be treated a murder, but that's just my opinion.