There are proven maths and science for Astrology. We cannot say Astology is a fraud or cheating to make money.

In fact, The science and technology had gone to a supermost end. But still even scientists use to believe astrology. And any scientist and doctors who are making medical miracles are not able to understand or announce the complete functionality of a human brain and though they are fixing alternative organs like heart, bones,muscles, dna restructuring and all they cannot give a breath for dead body... Here is the astrological and astronomical science is getting proved by the supreme administrator.

Because its is a pure maths of astronomical science.

Astronomical science is not only about 9 PLANETS or 12 Planets. Astronomical science is a subject about the whole universe and galaxy.

The events which happens in this world is having its own formulas and YES THAT IS HAPPENINGS ARE ALREADY DETERMIND by the universal science.. That is a supreme chief power is the Administrator. (Here we are not thinking or talking about any particular caste or religion) As per astrological thoughts the chief administrator of this planet, living beings and other planets is only one person, who is unnamed supreme power.

People who like to discuss about this shall write and have a fertile discussion. No rubbish or unintellectual discussions please.

Hello

Could You please provide at least some of those "proven maths and science for Astrology" and "pure maths of astronomical science"?
I read a lot of very unorthodox worldviews but as for astrology I didn't meet any convincing argument. Not to say about "maths and science". Some links would be enough.

Okay, I think our friend Indianpartner means something like this (I don't mean to put words in your mouth Indianpartner, please correct me where I'm wrong):

What were the possistions of the planets in the sky at the moment and place of your birth? Simplly because you don't believe that the question has any practical value does not address the question. Do you know? If not then the mathmatics involved in creating a "Birth Chart" is suffecent to answer this question. Not nessecary, but suffecent.

Now are you ready for the lecture you asked for? Our ancesters had to play the hand they were delt. These people did not have the benifit of the knowledge we possess today. We DO have the benifit of THEIR knowledge. This is how we came to be here now.
It's part of the story of us all, and in the long run that may be all we leave of ourselves in this place. And maybe not even that.

I will assume that you have a basic working knowledge of Astronomy. I'm not asking you to have read Peebles here, but if you don't grasp the basic concepts of Cosmic Measurement then you'll be lost here. If you want me to open a thread for Equinoxes (do you have any Latin? What is Nox?), Solstices, the Ecliptic, or what it means for a Planet to be "In" a given consilation then holler, but else if I'm going straight to the Math asked for.

You first require "quite" a collection of tables and charts. A breif and incompleate list:

Standard Time Zones of the World
Sidereal Times for the Sun at Each Degree of the Zodiac
A section of Cusp Graphs (funny here is I've only got an Ausie reference book for this and it's all in the WRONG hemisphere for me.)

Okay this is boiled down from "Your Planetary Personality" by Denis Oakland

First you need information. Where and when were you born? Remember we are talking about EXACTALLY where in the sky was each and every planet, at THAT moment on THAT spot. The more exact your information, the more exact your answer.
GIGO
Are you begining to see what Indianpartner is refering too?

Refer to the Ephemers Table which this source baselines as the Sun to Mars relation and pull the figures closest to your birth date on either side. Subtract the later figure frome the ealier one (given in military time) and convert to Greenwich. Add the number of days to prior Sun posistion.
divide by 5
Since the table uses 5 day incriments this "adjusts" the Suns posistion on the Chart to the actuall Day of Birth. This figure can now reference the Sun-Sidereal Time Table to end up determing the Solar Noon Sidereal Time at your birth moment. There are additional procedures for refining the time from noon to your actual time of birth and actual place of birth.

Is this sufficent to get the point across?

Hello

I'm afraid that You misinterpreted my concerns. Let me explain.
1. What I believe or not is not important when we are talking about "proven maths and science". What I was asking is: is there a conclusive scientific proof that astrologic predictions of any kind are actually accurate.
2. Many conditions upon time of my birth (and ever since) influenced my life, that's clear. If You advocate that positions of objects, whose distances from me are measured in millions of kilometers, do it in significant way - You are the one to prove it. Not me if I say they don't.
3. Any maths can be involved in creating charts. In science question is: does experience support theory? In other way: were there any research on the subject. Is there any statistically significant correlation between birth date and (let's use the word) fate of the born? If not then You are the one that mixes believing with knowing.



I have great respect for old wisdom even if what it says sounds bizarre at first. But that does not relieve me from criticism when I say about the proofs.

And then You give me a walk through procedure which result is doubtful ... Don't get me wrong. I'm not fighting with Your conviction. I would really like to see evidence if it exists.

I used to believe in Newton's deterministic, clockwork universe: that if the velocity and position of every particle in the universe were known, we could determine the fate of everything. I used to believe that there exists an absolute equation that can predict the motion of everything and, ultimately, the destiny of everything. Much as I hate to admit it, it also implies that there is sometruth to astrology.

However, Einstein virtually broke Newton's universe, that is, Newton's laws can only apply to objects in everyday life but for explaining extremely large phenomena like Mercury's orbit or infinitesimal particles like electrons, Einstein's relativistic theories made much more sense. Indeed, science says that our universe is rather probabilistic than deterministic. In other words, we cannot really extrapolate into the future and predict anything accurately.

Now, the issue at hand: is astrology really a math/science related to astronomy?

Personally, I don't think so. Yes, we can say that astrology is the parent of astronomy. However, astronomy is the systematic study of the cosmos. Talking about equinoxes, solstices and time zones or determining exactlky where in the sky is the moment you were born is astronomy. Using charts and graphs, computing degrees, minutes and seconds, that is math. Applying the result to the prediction of human personality or even fate, that is astrology and, especially now, universally impossible.

I'll have to agree with marekdurek: just because something is systematic does not necessarily mean it is a science or math. Apart from that, science or math also requires accuracy or, at the very least, significant correlation. Now, indianpartner mentioned that science is still incapable of explaining the complete functionality of a human brain nor resurrect the dead. I'd say this is irrelevant and illogical reasoning. Pointing out the flaws in science does not necessarily strengthen the defense for astrology. Besides, despite those two flaws mentioned, science is still capable of satisfactorily explaining how much of the universe works. From where I'm standing, though, I can see that astrology cannot explain the workings of the human brain either. More importantly, there is still a lot more than astrology cannot explain. For example, it cannot give the reason why a plant generally heads towards the light, how diseases are cured or how information can be transmitted across vast distances.

Also, another thing is that the stars in the sky are not constantly in the same position forever. New ones are born, old ones die out and the rest drift about in the vast empty space. In other words, the configuration of the stars now is not the same as the configuration of stars tomorrow. The stars would have moved, albeit slowly to the Earthling's eye, but still moving. This has led to certain confusion. Allow me to point you to an older post of mine here. Basically, today's astrology is terribly inaccurate, calling people Aries when they technically are Pisces and Leo when they should have been Cancer.

In the end, having all that system and pomp does not necessarily make anything a science. Especially if it is not even 90% accurate

I don't see any kind of logic in the presentation of your ideas. What about astrology makes it scientific? Just like ESP and other Psychic claims have been proven false, it is extremely obvious that there is no logical connection here. The basis of astrology is simply fairy tales, and due to this astrology is entirely fabricated. Sure it is based on something scientific which I think is the argument your making, but that doesn't meant that it is true. My birthday has nothing to do with the arrangement of planets...Sorry.

i wish i'd understand a word of this mambo jumbo

anyway : i just wanna make sure

Astronomy - based on facts (knowlage about universe)

Astrology - Belifes of our ancisters (knowlage based on universe)

am i right ?

im so smurt and inteligent . geaf a nobel prise now ! just joking you alright...

The position of stars change over a period of years. Even if some ancient way of reading them even existed, they'd be innacurate now.